Football 2011-2012

[The Nal]

Heres the dive. The only "balance" issue was him chucking himself on the ground.

[eFestivals]

Not condoning diving at all, from anyone, but did Young dive in front of an open goal?

I can't remember to be honest - tho I do remember a missing the ball sky-kick in front of an open goal from him. Which in terms of winning something for the team is worse.

They are. The league table proves that. What cant speak cant lie.

Utd did shit in four cup competitions, and has a great league position.

Liverpool have done great in the two cup competitions they've been in, and has a shit league position.

It's hardly the mile apart you're wanting to see it as.

And if it were the other way around for Utd, with a poor league campaign but great cups I don't have to fantasise about what you'd be posting today.

Where are these blinkers you speak of? I haven't mentioned Utd once.

Very true, you've not mentioned Utd - which only gets to show that your blinkers are on, because the worst team ever knocked the infallible Utd out of the cup.

If you take your blinkers off you get to see that cup failure, along with Utd's very shit Chumps and Europa campaigns - which make this Utd team the shittest in years (if I use no different a basis as you're using for Liverpool).

So is it not the worst Liverpool team in recent memory then? 2012 form, and its April now, Liverpool are the second worse team in the league. Slightly better than Wolves.

S

Sorry, I must have missed the change in rules which makes any poor run within a season a stat of consequence.

But seeing as we're doing that, back around Aug/Sept time Utd had a poor run that surpasses anything Liverpool have managed this season. Something is stopping you seeing that, I wonder what it might be.

(here's a clue ... finish this score-line ... 6-? )

The league is the only true barometer of a squads health.

it's the most meaningful yes, but not the only.

I doubt that Liverpool have sacrificed the league for the cups, but they have one cup (and might have two) all the same. And the season is yet to finish.

If Utd didn't win another game this season, your season verdict would be "they ran City closer than people expected them to", not "they're the shittest Utd team ever cos they couldn't win any of their last eight games".

I was fuming after Nani's dive against Liverpool a couple of years ago when he could've headed it. Why Carroll dived is beyond me! A striker is desperate need of a goal, after doing well to set it up for himself, rounds the keeper and then takes a tumble?!

It's pretty standard for any out of form player - Torres has done it at least once this season, perhaps more. Rooney has done it before now too. It's a big list.

That doesn't make it right of course, but it's not the massive thing you're making it. The only difference about yesterday to some of the others is how blatant it was.

[strummer77]

Heres the dive. The only "balance" issue was him chucking himself on the ground.

[lharris92]

he probably had a bet they would lose 2-0 with him wasting an open goal. probably made a tenner on that bet if it happened as he was probably 100-1 on to not score

[The Nal]

And if it were the other way around for Utd, with a poor league campaign but great cups I don't have to fantasise about what you'd be posting today.

[modey]

Had to laugh at this, all ifs and buts, who writes this shit??

http://www.talksport.co.uk/magazine/features/120323/gallery-games-liverpool-should-have-won-and-how-table-would-look-if-they-166304

[The Nal]

Anyone see Benzema's goal on Saturday?!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-AVv9N8VPXE&feature=related

[eFestivals]

If Utd are ever 8th in the league and I'm posting anything but criticism come back to me. It'll never happen. The criticisms against Liverpool are completely valid. No matter what team people support. Are all the journos, pundits and the Liverpool fans who aren't happy actually Utd fans now in your mind!?

It's a poor league season. It happens, particularly when there's a not-great squad.

On the other side of that, it's been a good cup year.

As I said, I doubt that Liverpool gave up on the league for those cups, but they've got one and might get another, and they've secured a place in Europe for next season. It's not the unmitigated disaster you're presenting this season as being, even if it's not everything that Liverpool might have hoped for.

It is progression, a step forwards, no matter where they finish in the league. Their season has become about those cups and not the league.

Blackburn beat Utd in Old Trafford. Are they better than Utd? I don't think Wigan or QPR are better than Liverpool but they beat them. Come on Neil! This is childish stuff now.

all of which - for Utd and Liverpool - gets to show that individuals results are not how things are measured. The only childish thing here is you trying to define Liverpool by a few results within something bigger.

And even the league is not the ONLY measure. Perhaps Liverpool would swap those cup successes for top 4 (it's not for me to say). But they still have one cup and might have two. They are not irrelevant, just as Utd losing to Blackburn is not completely irrelevant to Utd's season.

Whats Utd got to do with any of this? And Im blinkered? You're so obsessed with Utd that you cant even comment on another team without bringing them into EVERYTHING.

You are defining Liverpool by eight (or whatever it is) league results. That is not the season.

But if you wish to blinker-out the rest of the season for just a segment, then I'm entitled to do it too for a club of my choosing, and the segment of my choosing.

Where's the difference, apart from what we each chose to include and also blank out?

FFS. Liverpool's season is not the disaster that you wish to view it as. Yes, it could have been better, but so could have Utd's.

Within the context of Liverpool's starting point, it ain't that bad even if it's well short of the best hopes (which it is).

This has nothing to do with Man Utd. Only in your ABU world. I haven't mentioned Utd with regard to Liverpool. And why would I? Its irrelevant.

It's as relevant to point out Utd's failings as it for you to ignore Liverpool's successes - which you're doing.

All I'm doing here is trying to make you aware that there's around the same basis to take the piss out of Utd as there is to take the piss out of Liverpool for this season. It's only by willy waving Utd's failings in your face that your brain engages, but even when it engages it only brings outrage at the suggestion that there's big failings at Utd and not you joining up the dots.

Fucks sake Neil. ANY criticism of ANY other team, even if its the general consensus among the fans of that team, and your standard response is "yeah but Man Utd".

I agree with the criticisms of Liverpool you fool.

What I am doing is pointing out that nearly all of th0ose same criticisms apply to all other clubs, tho in a different manner because they're different clubs.

The problem is that you are unable to accept that there are as many reasons to criticise Utd's failings.

"Carroll dived"

"Yeah but Young at Utd...."

... dived? He does. Regularly.

"Liverpools form is fairly shit"

"Yeah but Utd were shit in the cups"

... and they were,

"Liverpool have spent a lot of money"

"Yeah but so have Utd..."

... and they both have.

"Daglish was a bit arsey in that interview"

"Yeah but Fergie at Utd"

... is always arsey. Cos he is.

You see my point? You aim those criticisms at Liverpool, and all of the same things are no less true of Utd - but Liverpool are the worst team ever, while Utd are faultless in your eyes.

The problem is nothing about ABU's here. The problem is a Utd fan wanting to have free reign to mostly-baselessly have a pop at Liverpool, when there's no fair basis for you to do so. You might as well be expecting you to be able to say "Utd are better than Wolves" without someone saying "no shit sherlock".

Yes, Liverpool's form recently has been shocking. But it's still a season with one cup already and a decent chance of a second, and they're still in a reasonable league position despite having not won a league game all year.

It's not a disaster. They didn't start as champions. It's better than last season.

[Chiefski]

The continued Liverpool car crash makes me think we (Sunderland) could finish in the top 8, shame we gave those goals away on Saturday. Not going to finish above Newcastle but finishing above Liverpool would be great progress for us (and hilarious)

[The Nal]

all of which - for Utd and Liverpool - gets to show that individuals results are not how things are measured. The only childish thing here is you trying to define Liverpool by a few results within something bigger.

You are defining Liverpool by eight (or whatever it is) league results. That is not the season.

[eFestivals]

No I'm defining them on the season so far. They're 8th. They've lost 11 games out of 31. Another loss or a couple of draws and they could find themselves well into the bottom half. Thats poor. Simple.

For the record, Id much rather see Liverpool further up the table. Its a more interesting season when thats the case.

That's a poor league position but it is not a poor season, given where they've started from. A poor season would be that league position without the silverware they've won, qualifying for Europe, and the decent possibility of another cup.

On a similar basis as you're trying to use for Liverpool, if Utd don't win the league then they'll have had a worse season than Liverpool, given their starting position, their four massive cup failures and not having won the league to compensate for those massive cup failures. Luckily for Utd it looks as tho they'll get to cover their arse by City falling apart.

As I keep saying, Liverpool might have preferred a top 4 league position, but it's still not a poor season. A poor season would have been that league position without the cups or Europe.

It's a long way from a brilliant season, but it's still not 'poor'. Poor would be a season that had shown no improvement and no progression. They've progressed, tho in a different way to what they might have preferred.

[The Nal]

Luckily for Utd it looks as tho they'll get to cover their arse by City falling apart.

Edited April 2, 2012 by The Nal

[eFestivals]

City haven't fallen apart. They've dropped a bit sure but Utd have been brilliant. But I wouldn't expect you to acknowledge that.

no matter how 'brilliant' Utd have been, if City hadn't 'dropped a bit' - or fallen apart (which only last week you were saying ) - then no amount of brilliance from Utd would have changed things.

Liverpool have fallen apart, which is what I've been saying.

No, you've been saying "poor season" and "worst team ever", which is a very different thing.

Care to tell me when the "worst team ever" has ever won anything?

Yep, they've fallen apart lately. If it keeps going like that it might even make it a poor season.

But as things stand, despite having fallen apart lately, it's not a poor season and they're not the worst team ever.

It's very probably a very disappointing league position for them, but that's still held up some by the silverware they've won so far (along with the chance of more).

But much like that, I'd bet that Utd would rather win the Chumps than they would the league.

[The Nal]

no matter how 'brilliant' Utd have been, if City hadn't 'dropped a bit' - or fallen apart (which only last week you were saying ) - then no amount of brilliance from Utd would have changed things.

Edited April 2, 2012 by The Nal

[strummer77]

Regarding the pisspot, in the last 10 years, Leicester, Birmingham, Middlesborough and Blackburn have all won it and Wigan have been to a final where Utd made it look like a training game.

Edited April 2, 2012 by strummer77

[eFestivals]

Yes, I will tell you. Souness' team won the FA Cup and that team is generally regarded as the worst Liverpool team ever.

I've made a point that the current Liverpool team could be worse than Souness' team. Its a possibility.

so there you go then, you've agreed with me and disagreed with yourself.

Come back and say it when it's true, and not just a possibility.

[strummer77]

All the talk of Perch and Andy Carroll's dives meant that this piece from Cabaye has been forgotten. Disgraceful and imagine the reaction if it was the other way round...

[Ed209]

All the talk of Perch and Andy Carroll's dives meant that this piece from Cabaye has been forgotten. Disgraceful and imagine the reaction if it was the other way round...

[modey]

Valencia once again immense tonight, great result

[thetime]

Just the 34 points ahead of liverpool now!!

[The Nal]

James Perch showing strong signs of recovery after Pepe Reina's assault

Edited April 2, 2012 by The Nal

[strummer77]

James Perch showing strong signs of recovery after Pepe Reina's assault

[The Nal]

Delighted with last night. Blackburn defended well but think Utds extra bit of class just nicked it. Valencia is a beast. Cant think of a better wide player around at the moment.

And De Gea was great first half. Two or three really important saves.

Fans were unbelievable last night too.

Barca/Milan later!!

Edited April 3, 2012 by The Nal

[Banana Co]

Valencia is a beast. Cant think of a better wide player around at the moment.

[The Nal]

One of the biggest games for a few years in the Champions League tonight.

Ill go for Barca. Just. Think Milan could cause them all sorts of problems though. Nesta, Ibra and Robinho need to be playing their very very best for Milan to have a chance.