Football 2011-2012

[Wooderson]

If you mean from me, I certainly accept nothing of the sort. Can't see anybody else accepting casual racism either in here, seems to be a reasonable discussion about the report which is very intriguing in its own right.

[Kowalski]

What's all this nonsense about it being Evra's word against Suarez?

There were others involved:

The report says that Damien Comolli and Dirk Kuyt's statements contradict Suarez's

[strummer77]

Just saw this on twitter from a journalist...

If Evra's testimony more closely matched the video than LS's account, is that not because, unlike LS, he gave evidence while watching it?

The FA really don't help themselves do they? Even if they've come to a right decision, they really leave themselves open to criticism.

Edited January 1, 2012 by strummer77

[kaosmark2]

Not words. Video evidence only supported their actions.

Only read a bit though, as someone else said it doesn't seem to have changed many peoples opinions for one reason on another.

[strummer77]

I don't really see how there's much defense of Suarez. He's been inconsistent in his claims, including with what he's said to Dalglish, Commoli, Kuyt, etc. I really despise how that report praises how calm and consistent Evra is - he may well have been well coached in coping in order to support his case, and it encourages the "It's one word against another" argument, which isn't really true. It's one consistent word against another's who keeps on changing and contradicts the people on his side.

Edited January 1, 2012 by strummer77

[strummer77]

Edit: Deleted this post. Was a bit aggressive. Sorry. Just fucking hanging after last night.

Lets speak about football shall we. Steve Keen's job getting safer perhaps? And what has happened to Yakubu. Never seen him as mobile as he was for that second goal!

Edited January 1, 2012 by strummer77

[thetime]

Like strummer says, lets get back to the football.

Cant believe the sunderland game. Was waiting for city to get one and sunderland win the fame with last kick.

Brilliant.

[thetime]

My mate who is a Blackburn fan still wants him out... but I don't think the owners give a rats arse what the fans think...

[strummer77]

Yet most fans, other than Liverpool fans, seem to think only Liverpool FC, their fans and Suarez need to talk a long hard look at themselves...

[strummer77]

Cant believe the sunderland game. Was waiting for city to get one and sunderland win the fame with last kick.

Brilliant.

[thetime]

Football eh? What a game.

Was offside tho

[Kowalski]

Speaking for yourself there. Don't personally know a single person who think that. Everybody I've spoken to either thinks that the FA have taken too long, been inconsistent, took too long to publish the documents or generally haven't helped themselves blah blah blah. That includes a fair number of Utd fans.

Edited January 1, 2012 by Kowalski

[pink_triangle]

Think the FA's report really is flimsy and gets flimsier the more it's probed. It could easily, extremely easily, be torn to pieces by a good lawyer as there's far too many contradictions etc. Just enforced my belief this is a criminal matter and should have been dealt with through those channels. Racism is disgraceful and I believe it should be fully 100% be dealt with properly. Like the outcome or not, John Terry's case will have none of these ifs/buts about it. There will be sound reasoning and a firm decision based on evidence and made by people with top top credentials.

[kaosmark2]

Gonna play devil's advocate here:

Recalling a story isn't easy. Try recalling a conversation you had. It isn't easy. No throw in the fact its in the middle of a massive match you've played in. I doubt you'd remember your exact body language and words. Then if you were shown footage of what happened you'd notice things you would have forgotten, maybe even things you didn't know had happened etc. Your story would, consciously and subconsciously mould and change to fit the obvious truth.

I'm not sure Evra's in as consistent and reliable as is made out either. He speaks spanish enough to start a conversation in it and use the 'your sister's c**t' phrase, but not well enough to quite understand negro/nigger differentiation? A differentiation which is fairly large. He also claims he doesn't like using the latter word, which of course is fair enough. The word makes me cringe and I'm glad there's no suggestion of Suarez using it. However Evra doesn't really hate this word with the passion of his claim detailed in point 271 does he?

That point doesn't support Suarez, indeed it's not meant to. However this idea that Evra's testimony is spot on doesn't seem quite so correct when you read the document. Indeed the story changes a fair few times. Also he tells the ref the word is black, tells SAF it was nigger and now is happy to accept its negro. He said it 10 times, he said it 7 times, he said it 5 times... There might be genuine reasons for this, but it certainly isn't a bastion of consistency.

Think the FA's report really is flimsy and gets flimsier the more it's probed. It could easily, extremely easily, be torn to pieces by a good lawyer as there's far too many contradictions etc. Just enforced my belief this is a criminal matter and should have been dealt with through those channels. Racism is disgraceful and I believe it should be fully 100% be dealt with properly. Like the outcome or not, John Terry's case will have none of these ifs/buts about it. There will be sound reasoning and a firm decision based on evidence and made by people with top top credentials.

In my opinion both players, both clubs and certainly the FA could have handled this a lot better.

[thetime]

I think mr efestivals should ban the suarez racusm discussion, as no ones going to change there minds or say anything new.

Edited January 1, 2012 by thetime

[kaosmark2]

I think mr efestivals should ban the suarez racusm discussion, as no ones going to change there minds or say anything new.

[strummer77]

I think mr efestivals should ban the suarez racusm discussion, as no ones going to change there minds or say anything new.

Edited January 2, 2012 by strummer77

[eFestivals]

Decent summary of the findings.

What about the video evidence?

Jesus wept, racism wouldn't be tolerated in my workplace so its quite distasteful that some are still trying to bury their heads in the sand about what Suarez did - as I've said before in this thread, he has a history of being a scummy bastard.

whatever Suarez might have done ion the past is of no relevance to this .... unless you think that being guilty of past bad behaviour makes a person guilty of any further but different accusations thrown their way? In which case, I believe you're a murderer.

And of course using that basis makes Evra guilty too, in fact it probably just makes him guilty and not Suarez, given that Evra has a past of making false statements to try and drop representatives of other clubs in the shit.

Keep to the relevant facts, eh? That's the only place where guilt or not gets proven.

[eFestivals]

All is probably a slight exaggeration but only a slight one. Pretty much every Liverpool fan I know has supported Suarez and pretty much every man utd fan evra. I am certain that Liverpool and man utd fans don't have different attitudes to racism, so the assumption is that club loyalty is a more important factor than the evidence.

while I don't much disagree with what you've said there, it's still the case that the evidence is pretty weak, about the weakest it can get in fact.

In a court of law, it's probably the case that neither word would be accepted over the other's - unless one of those 'others' was a copper (who are deemed by courts to always be upstanding and 100% honest, tho that's simply not the case in all cases).

(Just to make clear, from the little I've read about the full report I'd probably come to the same conclusion as the FA have. I'm not trying to absolve Suarez, I'm just pointing out the fact that the evidence is not very strong and that it's possible that Evra is the one telling porkies).

[eFestivals]

Speaking for yourself there. Don't personally know a single person who think that. Everybody I've spoken to either thinks that the FA have taken too long, been inconsistent, took too long to publish the documents or generally haven't helped themselves blah blah blah. That includes a fair number of Utd fans.

I've read something this morning (the Telegraph, I think) which says that while LFC complained about the delay, the delay was actually caused by the availability of the lawyer that Suarez had requested to represent him. So the delay was actually LFC's fault.

And while publishing the documents took a long time (it's normally three days), there's not normally xmas getting in the way, and neither is there 115 pages of a report to write, or a report that is likely to be subject to so much scrutiny that it's extremely important to ensure it's fully accurate.

[eFestivals]

Suarez would more likely get off via the criminal route but thats more because rich people with rich lawyers get more favourable justice from the courts than your average man. I have no reason to think the criminal route will produce better justice than the fa route.

Suarez would have been more likely to get off via the criminal route, but not because of what a lawyer might do. The burden of proof is higher in a criminal court than is required by the FA.

Whether that leads to better justice or not is a subjective opinion, and likely to vary in that subjectivity dependant on the case, the alleged perpetrator, and a person's closeness to a case.

[eFestivals]

the last few days footie .....

Who'd have thought that the teams who started the weekend as the top four would pick up just one point between them over the weekend? When did that last happen?

I watched the S'land/City match yesterday, and in the first ten minutes was saying that City didn't look like they'd score and that S'lund might sneak it. I thought S'lund played really well, and while they got very lucky they sort-of deserved the win.

It all makes the title and top-four race a lot more interesting. Am really looking forwards to City/Liverpool tomorrow, cos City are on a mini slump and with Liverpool doing well against all of the 'top' sides since Kenny's return plus Gerrard back playing it's a match that could go either way.

[Wooderson]

...that it's extremely important to ensure it's fully accurate.

Edited January 2, 2012 by Wooderson

[lost]

RIP Gary Ablett, great player

[strummer77]

Its funny the calls to "move on" are coming from the every so "scorned" Liverpool fans

Edited January 2, 2012 by strummer77