Football 2011-2012

[Wooderson]

He said/she said. Fuck off.

[eFestivals]

I've only read very short newspaper reports of the very long FA report, but from what I've read it appears to completely nail Suarez, and the ban appears totally justified ... but my views on that might change if/when I get around to reading the full thing, because at the moment I'm having to make some assumptions of things that aren't made clear in the papers I've read (such as whether there's video proof to back up Evra's version of what was said, which I'm currently assuming there is).

That aside (and not in any way trying to justify anything about Suarez's doings), three things jump out at me...

1. the rule that he's been charged under needs changing, so that reference to skin colour is allowed. There can be perfectly reasonable reasons to make such a reference (in a descriptive manner), so to have a rule that disallows any use is stupid.

2. from the Telegraph's report (I say again, I'm not trying to justify what Suarez did), it reads like it might have been Suarez joking with his first comment back to Evra in an Ali G sort of way, and that when Evra came back with such a strong reaction ("say that again and I'll punch you") Suarez went all childish saying 'negro' again and again just for the wind-up it caused.

3. that the level of punishments dished out is all to cock .... I'm not trying to argue against an 8 game ban for using racist language, but I am arguing against a ban of less than half that (3 games) for using deliberate physical violence by punching someone, as happened with Evra in a previous case. Racism is wrong, but I can't see how deliberate physical violence and then lying about it afterwards is less than half as wrong.

[pink_triangle]

What a surprise as I predicted, every man u and Liverpool fan were desperate to see the evidence and shockingly after seeing it, everyone has the same opinion as they did before.

[thetime]

What a surprise as I predicted, every man u and Liverpool fan were desperate to see the evidence and shockingly after seeing it, everyone has the same opinion as they did before.

[zahidf]

Can you give one valid example during a football match ? I can't think of any....

[eFestivals]

I see your point... But I think the correct argument is for a bigger ban for violence rather than less for racism...

As I said with "I'm not trying to argue against an 8 game ban for using racist language, but I am arguing against a ban of less than half that (3 games) for using deliberate physical violence".

BTW, that was a general comment on the punishments, and not me taking an opportunity for a dig at Evra even tho his case was the example I gave (it's the only one of violence I can name).

[eFestivals]

Can you give one valid example during a football match ? I can't think of any....

TBH, I'm struggling to find one outside of players on the field not knowing the names of the opposing team .... but things as they stand would mean that the defence that Suarez tried to give but wasn't accepted for good reasons in this case could never be a valid defence or mitigating circumstances in a case where it was actually a non-derogatory use.

[strummer77]

Evra's account is pretty damning... but it is a his word v his word from what I read of the report.

Saw a journalist reckoned Liverpool could drive a bus through it, if they want to that is...

The report is loooooong mind so not going to quote certain bits. Just going to wait for responses.

Edited January 1, 2012 by strummer77

[eFestivals]

I don't think this justifies the comment at all though...

I didn't say it did.

All I'm saying is that's how I heard it in my head when I read it in the paper (and my take could be wildly wrong), and makes how the words were used something different (not acceptable, just different) to other ways the same words could be taken. Taken at their worst they mean that Suarez has views to the right of the BNP.

That "negro, negro, negro" bit sounds like the sort of thing an under ten would do, when they say a rude word they've heard used for the effect they know it'll have on their parents while not necessarily actually understanding* what the word means. For effect rather than meaning.

(*I'm not trying to suggest that Suarez didn't know what the word he used could mean, the little I've read of it makes it pretty damned clear that he did, and that he used it to insult).

Edited January 1, 2012 by eFestivals

[Wooderson]

"Mr. Evra's account is _probably_ what happened."

[eFestivals]

Lfc look really stupid for what they did straight after.

yup, daft as a brush.

[eFestivals]

"Mr. Evra's account is _probably_ what happened."

I've yet to read the full account.

How much of Evra's claims for what was said is backed up with video evidence? I'm presuming a fair bit is.

[strummer77]

I've yet to read the full account.

How much of Evra's claims for what was said is backed up with video evidence? I'm presuming a fair bit is.

[strummer77]

Then again, its probably better behaviour than shown by the average hedgefund manager

[Kowalski]

Decent summary of the findings.

"Mr. Evra's account is _probably_ what happened."

[Wooderson]

Folks the summary of that case is basically Evra's account was deemed more likely to be true than Suarez. I hope if I ever have the misfortune of coming up against someone else in a "one persons worse Vs another" court/tribunal situation that more is required of persons deemed worthy to judge than whether I'm "believable" or not.

[thetime]

Some peoples causal acceptance for racism is really coming across in this thread...

[thetime]

Folks the summary of that case is basically Evra's account was deemed more likely to be true than Suarez. I hope if I ever have the misfortune of coming up against someone else in a "one persons worse Vs another" court/tribunal situation that more is required of persons deemed worthy to judge than whether I'm "believable" or not.

[Wooderson]

Suarez has been an awful gobshite - calling Johnson "Negro" in training - and should take his ban, but this tribunal is a stinker. Should have been held under the CPS.

[Wooderson]

So its only racist if more than 2 people hear it?

If evra a suarez were in a room on there own and the same words were exchanged, can he not be done for racism as noone else is in earshot?

[zahidf]

The fa has given reasons for why they.believe evra over suarez. So it's all in the report.

Lfc should just emphasise the report finding that suarez is not racist, that he made a mistake in what he said, that he will take his punishment and will not do it again. I can't see any other way out for them.

[strummer77]

Some peoples causal acceptance for racism is really coming across in this thread...

[pink_triangle]

disgraceful comments!

not all man utd fans, and not all liverpool fans are no that blinkered.

[pink_triangle]

disgraceful comments!

not all man utd fans, and not all liverpool fans are no that blinkered.

[strummer77]

Some peoples causal acceptance for racism is really coming across in this thread...