Football 2011-2012

[Jaybles]

so Ralph .... why Lindegaard on Saturday?

Not perhaps that Fergie is getting cold feet over De Gea?

[eFestivals]

Think its simpler than that.

Lindegaard showed in the champions league against Benfica that he is a quality keeper.

I think Fergie wants to rotate the two to get them both game time this season, but favouring De Gea for the big games. Home against Norwich not being one of those big games.

It'd occurred to me that it might have been because they were playing the (relatively) weak team that it Norwich.

But it's the case that Lindegaard has shown himself as good enough about as much as De Gea has suggested that he might not be (at the moment, anyway) ... and I can't see how dropping De Gea is going to help his confidence so that he stops making those cock-ups that he's made.

De Gea has shown himself as shit hot on occasions, but I think he's been just a bit too erratic so far. For me, Lindegaard is the better choice - but that makes it difficult to bring De Gea back.

[Jaybles]

It'd occurred to me that it might have been because they were playing the (relatively) weak team that it Norwich.

But it's the case that Lindegaard has shown himself as good enough about as much as De Gea has suggested that he might not be (at the moment, anyway) ... and I can't see how dropping De Gea is going to help his confidence so that he stops making those cock-ups that he's made.

De Gea has shown himself as shit hot on occasions, but I think he's been just a bit too erratic so far. For me, Lindegaard is the better choice - but that makes it difficult to bring De Gea back.

[The Nal]

Anyone watch Juve vs Milan last night? Great decision by Juventus to build the new 41,000 all seater stadium. The atmosphere in there last night was electric. Juve look good too. Buffon, Motta, Cheillini, Grosso, Iaquinta, Del Piero, Toni and of course Pirlo who was terrific last night. Milan made a huge boo boo getting rid of Pirlo for Aquilani.

[pink_triangle]

Modric? think argument could be made that Chelsea are one of the top European clubs. Think Fergie's an admirer too (named him as his poty last year), but Modric reportedly wants to stay in London.

Agree that Adebayor generally starts for a new club well, but then loses interest but he's got quality when he's motivated. 442 more suited for Defoe aswell as opposed to accomodating VDV with one up front like they played last year. Defoe's still only 28, and whilst had a poor season last year, still scored 18 in the league and 24 overall the year prior. I think they've got enough there to be okay for goals, and it's a good start for them now really. 12 from 18 having played United, Chelsea, Arsenal, Liverpool, Wolves, Wigan.

They're in a good position for 4th, and as you say unless Arsenal pick up they're gonna be out of it. Since the Carling Cup, 4 wins, 7 draws, 7 defeats in their last 18 league games now. 19 points from available 54. Away from home, they have a solitary win against Blackpool in 11 league games since the 4-4 capitulation against Newcastle. And with Sagna looking to be out for 3 months, who've they got? Jenkinson doesn't look in any way ready yet.

Wenger needs to pick them (& possibly himself) up fast.

Bellamy's a good squad option.

[TheGayTent]

You can tell who on here has played the game and who was always picked last at school!

[eFestivals]

You can tell who on here has played the game and who was always picked last at school!

Far more amusing than mis-placed laughs are the well placed ones for those who think they know the rules but don't.

Whatever those people think they were playing, it wasn't football.

Edited October 3, 2011 by eFestivals

[The Nal]

not correct. There's no such rule.

Edited October 3, 2011 by The Nal

[ralph250]

so Ralph .... why Lindegaard on Saturday?

Not perhaps that Fergie is getting cold feet over De Gea?

[The Nal]

1 min 55.

KEEPER!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b4QTZP2rLoY

[eFestivals]

There is, as long as the tackle isn't reckless or dangerous.

spot on.

But it's a subjective opinion on that of course. So what you might think isn't reckless or dangerous might not be how a ref sees it.

Which it wasn't as Suarez didn't even have control of the ball. Suarez's antics made it appear reckless and dangerous. Rodwell was at least two feet away from Suarez when he touched the ball.

I dunno about 2 feet - the photo you've posted doesn't show the moment he got the ball, when he was far closer.

And regardless of how far away Suarez was, he didn't have much choice about getting hit by Rodwell, who slid into him at speed. It's for this reason that I won't say it wasn't a foul - it's in a grey area, a part of that subjective view of the incident.

(If I was the ref, with all the views of it I've had via replays, I'd probably blow for a foul as a reckless challenge - but I'd know that the "he got the ball, it couldn't have been" brigade would all disagree).

However, it is up to the ref to decide and Suarez and the Liverpool players definitely influenced his decision.

That's perhaps the case (tho it happens at all clubs of course), but my view of it is that the ref saw the incident in the same way as those Liverpool players.(tho that's me saying they all saw it as something it wasn't, not that they saw it as it actually was).

It can certainly look as tho it was reckless at first glance and at full speed. It's only in slow-mo that you get to see what really happened, and that Rodwell's skill made it far less reckless than it might have looked with that first glance.

But look how far away from the ball Suarez is! It wasn't even a tackle to begin with.

In which case the 'foul' on Hernandez by Cole wasn't a foul, on the same basis. The ball was nowhere near.

The fact is that contact of any kind on a player can be considered a foul. Football is, within the rules, a non-contact sport apart from if shoulder-to-shoulder.

And heres where he caught him, chin to calf.

as I've said countless times, that was not the only contact. Rodwell's left foot also took Suarez's left foot a moment after that.

The fact you continually mis-represent the incident as it happened in full suggests to me that your intention here is to present a false view of it, for whatever purposes.

I'll try and get a freeze frame in a sec from the vids people have posted to prove that.

I fear for the future of the game if every football fan doesn't see it as a disgraceful decision. It ruined the game, one I'd been looking forward to.

it was a bad decision, a wrong decision, and it ruined a game I'd been looking forwards to too.

But IMO "disgraceful" is going too far. I can see how come the ref got it wrong, by the facts of what actually happened. While I want perfection from a ref, I know it won't happen so accept they'll get it wrong sometimes - and I don't see things being improved for the game if stuff like this was subject to a video replay, because those replays will have to happen for both the moments the game stops naturally like it did here, and for times it doesn't.

At some point in the season it's exceedingly likely that Everton will get a sending off call in their favour, and things will even out as a result.

[eFestivals]

Wally with brolly resigned

and Bristol City have sacked Keith Millen.

Seems like it's sacking week. Kean next?

[The Nal]

Seems like it's sacking week. Kean next?

[eFestivals]

as I've said countless times, that was not the only contact. Rodwell's left foot also took Suarez's left foot a moment after that.

The fact you continually mis-represent the incident as it happened in full suggests to me that your intention here is to present a false view of it, for whatever purposes.

I'll try and get a freeze frame in a sec from the vids people have posted to prove that.

here's the best I've managed to get by trying to hit pause at the right moment......

It's not entirely clear in that pic whether their left feet actually touched, tho the movement Suarez's left leg makes at around the moment I've captured strongly suggests to me that they did - tho as I've already posted, it might have been the case that Suarez jumped his leg out of the way (tho that seems unlikely when his right leg had already been hit).

So that's both of Suarez's legs taken out by Rodwell, with both of his feet being shin height with studs up at points of the incident.

I'm not trying to say the ref called it right, but I am saying that I can see why he called it as he did without the benefit of slo-mo replays.

Edited October 3, 2011 by eFestivals

[ralph250]

Anyone watch Juve vs Milan last night? Great decision by Juventus to build the new 41,000 all seater stadium. The atmosphere in there last night was electric. Juve look good too. Buffon, Motta, Cheillini, Grosso, Iaquinta, Del Piero, Toni and of course Pirlo who was terrific last night. Milan made a huge boo boo getting rid of Pirlo for Aquilani.

Edited October 3, 2011 by ralph250

[pink_triangle]

Did anyone else feel a little sympathy for the bolton keeper, terrible haircut, terrible shirt and a terrible performance!

[pink_triangle]

Did anyone else feel a little sympathy for the bolton keeper, terrible haircut, terrible shirt and a terrible performance!

[pink_triangle]

Did anyone else feel a little sympathy for the bolton keeper, terrible haircut, terrible shirt and a terrible performance!

[eFestivals]

so bad that you had to say it three times?

[ralph250]

Did anyone else feel a little sympathy for the bolton keeper, terrible haircut, terrible shirt and a terrible performance!

[The Nal]

Felt bad for him alright.

Did not feel bad for Paddy Kenny though. If you're going to be about two stone overweight and playing in the premiership you have to expect to be 2nd to 50/50s and give away penos.

[eFestivals]

Felt bad for him alright.

Did not feel bad for Paddy Kenny though. If you're going to be about two stone overweight and playing in the premiership you have to expect to be 2nd to 50/50s and give away penos.

I didn't see any of the Fulham/QPR match (not even highlights), but I can't think of a team more unlikely to score 6 goals than Fulham.

Were QPR shocking, or were Fulham very good?

[Benj]

here's the best I've managed to get by trying to hit pause at the right moment......

It's not entirely clear in that pic whether their left feet actually touched, tho the movement Suarez's left leg makes at around the moment I've captured strongly suggests to me that they did - tho as I've already posted, it might have been the case that Suarez jumped his leg out of the way (tho that seems unlikely when his right leg had already been hit).

So that's both of Suarez's legs taken out by Rodwell, with both of his feet being shin height with studs up at points of the incident.

I'm not trying to say the ref called it right, but I am saying that I can see why he called it as he did without the benefit of slo-mo replays.

[TheGayTent]

So Ellis Short has shoved Niall sideways and taken a more hands on approach. Not surprised given how much he spunked buying the shares, and how much more he's invested on the playing side.

Attendances are dropping even with offers of cheap tickets, and his investment has not even seen the return of a top 10 finish.

I wonder if his trigger finger is getting itchy...

[kaosmark2]

Well we're generally looking at having a monetary advantage (to have the capacity to do more than a club like Wigan), and would generally look at a tripartite split; matchday, media and commercial. Where someone might fall, they might make up big in one of the other streams so that their turnover exceeds the others.

TV revenue is the primary driver for most of the lower clubs' revenues as a % of turnover, and agree CL football is the key booster, but outside of the European places don't confer much in the way of numerical advantage. In 2009/10, the bottom 11 clubs all had about £11m between them looking at just the Prem money. All clubs get the same equal share payment, and overseas rights payment (gone up since). Clubs guaranteed at least 10 live games shown, but likes of "big six" will receive more in "facility fees" as deemed more viewership and so likely to get 20+ games, so likes of United, Arsenal, Chelsea etc will earn £6-7m more than likes of Norwich. in 2009/10, 8 clubs had the minimum 10 games shown for 6.3m, and 3 clubs had 11 games for an additional 500k. Everton and Blackburn got 13 each so an additional £1m, but that's still not much of an advantage. But the clubs outside the European places only really the Merit payments (prize money) that make any difference which is about £800k per league placing. 20th get 800k, 1st gets £16m.

2009/10

http://www.sportingi...ent-in-2009-10/

There's not much of a conferred advantage which other streams might provide. Agree fully, that location is a key determinate, but not just in attracting players but equally linked to the commercial lure and ticket prices. West Ham being in London had the 7th best commercial revenue (£17m) according to that Swissramble diagram I put couple pages back, much higher than say the £9m than Everton received. (Surprised Everton's is so low, would've thought they'd be able to exceed say Bolton).

As you say, Newcastle and Sunderland capacity exceeds some of those you compared to for pure numbers but the gate receipts don't.

Going on this:

http://news.bbc.co.u...ll/14367608.stm

Newcastle's prices range from £10 to £37. Sunderland's £25 to £36.

Liverpool £39-£48, Chelsea £23.50 to £87. Tottenham £31-£80. Arsenal £35-£100.

Those clubs' location and/or history of success probably more likely to entice sponsorship and more corporate types too.

That Swissramble diagram on the last page put Sunderland's match receipts at £13m, Guardian puts Newcastle's at £21m, which isn't to be sniffed at but puts them 8th in terms of match receipts, despite having the 3rd best average attendance http://soccernet.esp...-league?cc=5739. Still around 5k short of capacity so room to grow too, as is their room if Newcastle could get European football again with the extra fixtures it entails.

I think Newcastle have and have had the capacity to consolidate themselves into a top 10 side, but equally if looking at why they haven't done better over the past 10 years, I think part of the reason would have to be waste and/or luck with injuries. Owen didn't live up to his £15m fee (and wages) given you only got 14 games out of him for his first two seasons, Woodgate injured a lot for his first season (sold at a profit though), Luque, Xisco, Boumsong, Marcelino, Cort, Viana all didn't really live up to their fee for various reasons. Sunderland misfired with Flo, who they paid decent money for and didn't get them the goals that saved them from relegation, which set them back, similar to you guys.

Speaking theoretically if they were admitted, I'm not saying Celtic/Rangers would pull up trees or challenge for the league or anything, and agree they would probably struggle initially but I think they'd have the financial capacity to consolidate themselves to do more than Wigan who are limited to pretty much just fight for survival.