Football 2010-2011

[eFestivals]

This makes no sense at all.

It makes perfect sense.

Parker, Hitzelsperger, and Noble are all tough players, while Cole isn't, he's a delicate little flower. And just about every comment I hear about West Ham is that they're in need of tough players, and not flowers.

If you're not finding Boa Morte tough enough for you, then you've no hope with Cole, no hope at all.

Watching football matches - as opposed to spouting rubbish after not watching football matches -

Cole has been played in central midfield by Liverpool. He was shit, and has been no less shit in other positions they've tried him, which is why he's now finding it hard to get a kick.

and he hasn't, at least not when used correctly, as he was very successfully whilst at WHU...

How long ago was that? Ten years?

Any past glories he might have for you won't do you any good right now. He's lost it.

Did he? Or did he favour one over the other?

Impossible for us to know I guess.

But given Fergie's history, I'd have thought it was unlikely that he'd have been favouring a player on a personal and not footballing basis. He's generally thought of as all-round ruthless with his players, outside of the handful of players who helped make his reputation and have stayed with him (Giggs, Scholes, and Ugly).

[The Nal]

Well he certainly was as far as i'm concerned

Edited January 18, 2011 by The Nal

[eFestivals]

You do realise Neil, that bar Illunga (who has been out for most of the season) there isn't another left back in the WHU first team squad?

Which means centre halves have been playing left back.

I didn't realise, no. But none of that has any bearing on anything I've said, no bearing at all.

[ampersand]

It makes perfect sense.

Parker, Hitzelsperger, and Noble are all tough players, while Cole isn't, he's a delicate little flower. And just about every comment I hear about West Ham is that they're in need of tough players, and not flowers.

If you're not finding Boa Morte tough enough for you, then you've no hope with Cole, no hope at all.

[worm]

Tevez was/is a disruptive idiot at every club hes been at.

[The Nal]

So's Ferguson and you can extend that to every league he's been in. But we judge them on the success they bring, not the disruption they cause in bringing it.

[worm]

No there should be a balance in both and always a focus on the long term. Which you cant do with Tevez.

Edited January 18, 2011 by worm

[Steve P]

JET has gone on loan to Cardiff for the rest of the season. Now means I have to kind of want Cardiff to do well and that just doesn't feel right.

[TheGayTent]

It makes perfect sense.

Parker, Hitzelsperger, and Noble are all tough players, while Cole isn't, he's a delicate little flower. And just about every comment I hear about West Ham is that they're in need of tough players, and not flowers.

If you're not finding Boa Morte tough enough for you, then you've no hope with Cole, no hope at all.

Cole has been played in central midfield by Liverpool. He was shit, and has been no less shit in other positions they've tried him, which is why he's now finding it hard to get a kick.

How long ago was that? Ten years?

Any past glories he might have for you won't do you any good right now. He's lost it.

Impossible for us to know I guess.

But given Fergie's history, I'd have thought it was unlikely that he'd have been favouring a player on a personal and not footballing basis. He's generally thought of as all-round ruthless with his players, outside of the handful of players who helped make his reputation and have stayed with him (Giggs, Scholes, and Ugly).

[eFestivals]

surely the league position would suggest that a different approach wouldn't be the worst idea in the world?

To be fair to grant, he's always tried to have them playing football rather than lowest common denominator to get the win, so Cole would fit with that idea. And to also to be fair to him, it's started to get results in recent weeks.

But the comment I've heard most over many months (and due to injuries in some cases at least) is that too few of the players are prepared to get stuck in, with Scotty Parker praised because he does. If Cole was there, I strongly suspect he'd be a similar lightweight to how he's been at Liverpool, and bring West Ham very little.

(the one factor which would alter my view above is if Cole were personally a WHU fan - I don't know if he is or not).

[TheGayTent]

I didn't realise, no. But none of that has any bearing on anything I've said, no bearing at all.

[The Nal]

That's your bosses job to determine i.e. are the negative aspects that this guy brings worthy of the positive aspects. Ferguson decided that in the case of Tevez they weren't and in the case of Rooney they were. The question is whether these decisions were based upon personal issues or democratic issues, and given Ferguson's style of management (i.e. prototypically despotic) you'd be going out on a limb to suggest the latter.

[TheGayTent]

To be fair to grant, he's always tried to have them playing football rather than lowest common denominator to get the win, so Cole would fit with that idea. And to also to be fair to him, it's started to get results in recent weeks.

But the comment I've heard most over many months (and due to injuries in some cases at least) is that too few of the players are prepared to get stuck in, with Scotty Parker praised because he does. If Cole was there, I strongly suspect he'd be a similar lightweight to how he's been at Liverpool, and bring West Ham very little.

(the one factor which would alter my view above is if Cole were personally a WHU fan - I don't know if he is or not).

[TheGayTent]

Tevez was/is a disruptive idiot at every club hes been at.

Not to say he isn't a great player though.

[eFestivals]

Interesting. You think Noble is a tough player. He isn't. Not like say Parker is. Noble is a creative player, he's there to pick a pass or two. You discount my view on Cole even though I've watched him live about a 100 times. Yet when was the last time you watched and therefore know what type of player Hitzelsperger is...?

I wasn't thinking of Noble as another Parker, but he's a player who IMO doesn't seem to run from a tackle (unlike some you've got).

Hitzelsperger I've barely seen since he was at Villa. I have seen him in at least one Euro game while he was out of the UK, tho.

I've not watched WHU enough this season to have a clue for myself on where their problems might be. But I've heard it said again & again that they don't have players up for the fight, that they're not tough enough.

Alongside that - as I've already posted above - I've seen that Grant has always tried to have them playing football, and that recently it's started top come good.

The problem with Boa Morte is not how tough (or not) he is. It's that 1) he isn't a central midfielder, and 2) he's not very good. IMO Cole can play central midfield, and is very much a better player than Boa Morte. You state Cole has played central midfield at Liverpool and not been very good. Given that he's only played three full Premier League matches and not even all of them were in central midfield, I don't understand the basis on which you've drawn that conclusion.

I take it you've not seen how ineffective he was when he has, then?

[eFestivals]

Not sure who you're hearing things from. However, a perceived lack of effort isn't the issue, a perceived lack of quality and strength in depth is.

the point I'm making is that I can't see Cole changing that. It's no coincidence that he's not always getting a kick in a very poor Liverpool squad.

[TheGayTent]

I wasn't thinking of Noble as another Parker, but he's a player who IMO doesn't seem to run from a tackle (unlike some you've got).

Edited January 18, 2011 by TheGayTent

[TheGayTent]

the point I'm making is that I can't see Cole changing that.

[worm]

But Ill go out on a limb and suggest the latter. Yes, Fergie believes the manager is the most important person at the club and should have absolute power

[eFestivals]

Right so you've watched him once in 6 seasons...

Yep, that's quite possibly correct. Are you going to tell me that he's become a shrinking violet since his Villa days then?

I don't believe you can judge a player if he's not given a run of games. Given he's had only three full games and they weren't one after the other, nor were they all in the central midfield position, I don't believe anyone is in a position to judge his performances when playing in the central role.

Well, his two managers have.

Plus of course, you're still ignoring the fact that Kovac and Spector are pretty poor (relative to the quality of the Premier League).

and replacing cheap rubbish with expensive rubbish is going to change things how exactly?

[eFestivals]

Then you walk with a white stick

well, if you can afford his wages I reckon he'll be yours - and then we'll get to see for certain.

[TheGayTent]

Yep, that's quite possibly correct. Are you going to tell me that he's become a shrinking violet since his Villa days then?

Edited January 18, 2011 by TheGayTent

[eFestivals]

What's so amusing - you're telling me that Cole can't play in central midfield now, despite proving he can a few years back.

no, I'm telling you that Cole can't play anywhere now. He's had it.

OK, he might not have had it forever, but it does look like he might have. He expects the game to stop for him, as tho everyone should be amazed at his skill.

Both of whom had/have far greater resources at their disposal than WHU had/have...

... which is why it's not ....

very drole

... it'll be an expensive f**k-up for West Ham.

[The Nal]

Do you see the irony between the two sentences?

Edited January 18, 2011 by The Nal

[sifi]

I didn't think it was ironic anyway. It might be slightly contradictory, but not neccessarily ironic by it's most strict definition.