Football 2010-2011

[eFestivals]

Awful player

I didn't say they were good, just that they were products of Liverpool's youth system.

[The Nal]

I'm sure it's nothing more than paper talk, but the longer his contract goes unagreed, the more noise there'll be. What is certain is that the Glaziers won't let him walk for free, so if he's not going to sign, then he'll be gone in the summer when they can try and get a bidding war going. As was the case with Vidic recently though, I expect to see him sign a new contract soon.

Edited October 18, 2010 by The Nal

[Benj]

Unfortunately I dont think thats the case. The Associated Press are reporting it, Times, Guardian etc so its actually "news" now.

Hes clearly out of sorts and Fergie is apparantly absolutely disgusted with him, both in what he did and in his reaction to it. Throw in his performances on the pitch and the fact that hes too stupid to realise Fergie was trying to defend him with the ankle thing, and theres a real problem.

Id hate to see Rooney become one of those players that bums around from club to club for the reat of his career.

Edited October 18, 2010 by Benj

[eFestivals]

Arf, check out the headlilne 6 down on the right!

http://msn.foxsports.com/

wonder how long that will last

[Steve P]

Unfortunately I dont think thats the case. The Associated Press are reporting it, Times, Guardian etc so its actually "news" now.

Hes clearly out of sorts and Fergie is apparantly absolutely disgusted with him, both in what he did and in his reaction to it. Throw in his performances on the pitch and the fact that hes too stupid to realise Fergie was trying to defend him with the ankle thing, and theres a real problem.

Id hate to see Rooney become one of those players that bums around from club to club for the reat of his career.

[The Nal]

Arf, check out the headlilne 6 down on the right!

http://msn.foxsports.com/

wonder how long that will last

[ampersand]

Maybe there is more to it then. I hope for his sake and Englands that he can get himself back together again. I can't see him being successful abroad, just not got the inteligence to adapt.

[TheGayTent]

I didn't say they were good, just that they were products of Liverpool's youth system.

[The Nal]

him going to liverpool or man city would be hilarious!

[ampersand]

City is a possibility. So is Madrid or Milan I reckon. But he wont be happy.

Whos that on your avatar?

[The Nal]

it's our joe mcelderry

[ste4_20]

Press Association have said Rooney won't sign a contract.

Benzema+£35m?

[The Nal]

Press Association have said Rooney won't sign a contract.

Benzema+£35m?

Edited October 18, 2010 by The Nal

[eFestivals]

Either way, Id take the cash, if it comes down to it. Next summer is put up or shut up time for Fergie, massive reinvestment needed in the squad and money has to be spent. Buffon, Sniejder etc should be on the list or there’ll be issues.

as things stand right now, from one angle it looks like Man Utd could be this season's Liverpool.

(In reality I don't really think that - they're slow traditionally starters, and they're still unbeaten. But just go with the idea for a moment....).

Anyway, if that were to happen, I wonder where Utd fans would place the blame? The similarities with Rafa makes this possible scenario rather amusing.

After all, could Fergie really escape the blame? According to words from his own mouth, the club finances have had nothing to do with his spending or not spending - and so from that angle the blame falls squarely on fergie's shoulders.

But of course, what a manager might say isn't necessarily the truth, so what looks like a clear case of a fergie failure might actually not be.

I wonder how things would plan out?

[TheGayTent]

Just realised this year marks 20 years since I first went to Molineux (if my memory is right)

Grounds changed just a bit since then !

[The Nal]

as things stand right now, from one angle it looks like Man Utd could be this season's Liverpool.

(In reality I don't really think that - they're slow traditionally starters, and they're still unbeaten. But just go with the idea for a moment....).

Anyway, if that were to happen, I wonder where Utd fans would place the blame? The similarities with Rafa makes this possible scenario rather amusing.

After all, could Fergie really escape the blame? According to words from his own mouth, the club finances have had nothing to do with his spending or not spending - and so from that angle the blame falls squarely on fergie's shoulders.

But of course, what a manager might say isn't necessarily the truth, so what looks like a clear case of a fergie failure might actually not be.

I wonder how things would plan out?

[eFestivals]

Regarding Rooney, if it all goes tits up and hes sold, he is to blame 100% and despite what he might come out with, Ferguson is of the opinion that Rooneys actions have undermined the club.

I'd agree with that - Rooney's too thick to know when he's well off.

Its all very confusing. Apparently theres 156m or something in the bank and that’s for players. We wont know until next summer, the proof will be in the pudding. Im going to go with Fergie and Gill until next summer and make my mind up then. If there isnt big spending, Utd are in trouble, big time.

So IYO it's Fergie's fault until other facts prove otherwise.

While that at least makes you consistent with your views on Fergie and Rafa, I'd say that you're probably being over-harsh with fergie (cos I'd say he's doing what Rooney isn't - mouthing the same words as those above him, to protect his own position, yet while still being undermined from above), and while it's far from clear with Rafa, there's a decent chance that much the same has gone on around Rafa (while Rafa's still made cock-ups that haven't helped; the same would be true for fergie of course, but to a lesser extent).

[The Nal]

I'd agree with that - Rooney's too thick to know when he's well off.

Edited October 18, 2010 by The Nal

[Steve P]

Oh absolutely. The only real fact from this saga so far is that Rooney has proved he is incredibly thick.

I think Fergie missed out big time on Sneijder and that’s the big issue for me. I would blame him for that. His “No value in the transfer market” statement was wrong, and was proved wrong. Sneijder went for 12m. That’s all I’d blame him for. You don’t have to be Alex Ferguson to know Sneijder is a perfect replacement for Scholes. And he may well now have to pay 30m plus for a chance to sign him.

I don’t really think Fergie has been undermined as much as people may suspect. It could well turn out to be the case but I don’t think he’d sit on his hands and not say anything if he was being f**ked over from the top and told to shut it. He lives by the ethos that the manager is the most important person at any football club, as Rooney may be finding out, just like Stam, Becks, Ruud and Keano before him. I just mean that I believe him (though only just!) when he says theres money there. Ive no proof otherwise. But we wont know until next summer for sure, when he has already said he will have to spend. The proof will be in the actions or inactions in the transfer market.

That said, that’s assuming the financial situation hasn’t worsened by then.

[eFestivals]

I don’t really think Fergie has been undermined as much as people may suspect. It could well turn out to be the case but I don’t think he’d sit on his hands and not say anything if he was being f**ked over from the top and told to shut it. He lives by the ethos that the manager is the most important person at any football club, as Rooney may be finding out, just like Stam, Becks, Ruud and Keano before him. I just mean that I believe him (though only just!) when he says theres money there. Ive no proof otherwise. But we wont know until next summer for sure, when he has already said he will have to spend. The proof will be in the actions or inactions in the transfer market.

nah, I'd say you're defo wrong about all that. He's sucked up to the Glazers too many times - and times he didn't have to - for it to be led purely by his conscience. He knows which side his bread is buttered, and he's making sure he keeps it buttered.

But perhaps I'm wrong. As you say, things might become clearer next summer.

That said, that’s assuming the financial situation hasn’t worsened by then.

I'd guess a big part of it will be led by how well they do in the chumps. If they were to go out in the group stages then I guess it's gamble or bust time for the club - and I'd go with them gambling. The Glazers can't afford to risk bust.

I'd see them spending less next summer if they have what could be called from 'the club' side of things as a reasonable season - and of course, because they can't compete financially with Shitty, a reasonable season would be finishing below them but still in the top four.

But anyway, this is probably all pointless speculation - if things go to normal then Chelsea's blistering early season form will start to fall away (as it already looks like doing), and Utd will finish the season much stronger than they started it.

But until Utd pick up, it's squeaky bum time. And of course if the Rooney stuff is true it's probably squeaky bum time all season, cos he was so important to how they did last season.

[The Nal]

The biggest worry for united at the mo for me is making sure they get through this season still in the top 4. I sure they will, but they've got a much bigger fight on their hands for one of those places than ever before. If they do miss out, then what top quality players will they be able to attract? This is certainly going to be the problem that Liverpool face next summer.

[eFestivals]

Everything will come out next summer. I dont think Fergie has been kissing ass with the Glazers though, I really dont think he'd do that.

he's kissed their arses and slagged off the Norwich fans green & gold protests.

He's already done it matey.

[The Nal]

he's kissed their arses and slagged off the Norwich fans green & gold protests.

He's already done it matey.

[TheGayTent]

For the record, I think the green and gold campaign is a load of cobblers.

[ralph250]

There's £156m in the bank Nal, but won't be all for players I doubt. Whilst the £70m carveout or £25m dividends weren't taken for the financial year just reported, they'll have to be in this new financial year as "financial fair play" kicks in following season. Can't afford to have a £95m come out once that's active. (can afford reporting losses as the goodwill amortisation is excluded).

Unless the outlining in the prospectus was just as a security in case some other financial planning didn't come to fruition (eg. Glazers are seeking personal refinancing), then I'd expect to see a fair chunk of that £156m gone, whether it be the full amount or not.

Regardless of that, I think money has been there to purchase players, but not to pay them aswell. I think the two reasons Fergie hasn't seriously invested yet, is existing wagebill actually precluding it, and that those marquee signing might accelerate Giggs/Scholes retirement more, when Fergie feels they still have a lot to offer, and they've both put and still put in in some excellent performances.

Utd and Arsenal are the only clubs in the prem with a wages/turnover ratio less than 50% (Utd on 46%, Arsenal 49.7%), but it's still £132m a year for us; think wages have precluded us from making serious investment when considering that Giggs was still on £80k a week or £4.1m per annum last year (and Scholes has to be on at least £60-70k).

The ideal situation would obviously be for someone to come in before they're gone to get up to speed etc, but I just don't think we've been able to afford both. Think also Fergie's been reluctant knowing that a marquee signings will want/demand to play in all the big games etc aswell, but his fear is that Scholes and Giggs will probably call it a day if not feeling properly involved, playing those big European nights and this has persuaded Fergie against it, for now. Still think Sneijder would've cost us a lot more than Inter got him for aswell, considering how hardball we played the Ronaldo deal.

As for Rooney, if accurate that he's going, tis a massive kick in the teeth. We'd have done well if we get any deal as high as talked about (£50m+), considering our bargaining position has gone to shit given the fact he can bosman in 14 months. A January sale might be a less risky option to avoid him getting to summer and deciding to wait it out until following Jan where can talk and negotiate that bosman. Though that fear could probably be offset by Rooney arguably wanting to get out soon if true, and knowing his negotiating position for those bosman wages/big signing on bonuses etc will be poor if doesn't play much in 18 months and doesn't get the games to recover his form. He won't want to waste 2 years when those years are 26-28, what should be his peak years pretty much.

If he's going, then unless he improves his professionalism off the pitch and performances on (like Ronaldo did in his last season after the initial 2 months or so where he looked like he couldn't give a shit), then Fergie will look longterm and decide that gametime for Hernandez/Macheda etc will be more beneficial.

Any chance for a high fee is contingent on other clubs looking at last and previous seasons form as opposed to recent. Thing is whilst at his normal level, he could walk into pretty much any side in the world, is he going to improve anyone to the degree of the financial outlay? all the prospective clubs are pretty healthy in their striker departments right now so do any of the prospective teams really need him immediately or can they afford to wait and try their luck in a bosman? We have to hope that teams don't fancy their chances in a bosman and as such are willing to outbid to limit Rooney's options.

Rooney's longterm future with Colleen will play a massive part. If staying together (and she was at Old Trafford at the weekend), then will she want to f**k off to Spain or Italy given her younger sister who has a brain disorder was seriously ill last month? Add in her media work in the UK, and it'd look like staying in the UK/Northwest would be best. Just can't see us sanctioning a move to City though; Tevez and Rooney attacking us at Old Trafford? To be honest aswell, not sure how happy Tevez would be with Rooney arriving at Eastlands, enjoyed playing together but he's main man there at the moment.

Another kicker is that also another homegrown player gone, to go with Giggs, Scholes, Neville (all nearing retirement), Hargreaves and Owen (contracts both up in the summer), Ferdinand (32 in three weeks, dodgy back could return), Brown (just turned 31). That's 8 homegrowns likely to leave pretty soon. We're still pretty good numberwise regardless as Macheda has just turned homegrown and Rafael and Fabio both will in the summer, but does mean that likes of Gibson, Cleverley, Welbecks futures have become a bit more secure, at least in the short-term.

Edited October 18, 2010 by ralph250