Football 2023/24

[Neil]

1 hour ago, Barry Fish said:

The fact you fund the whole sh*t show with a sky subscription in the first place makes the fans part of the problem.

not me.

[thetime]

So the premier league is full of non English players, non English managers, non English owners, non English fans. But fans are up in arms over a European league.

Crazy really 

[thetime]

United down to 5th and 6th choice centre backs. 🤨

[charlierc]

It's turning into an odd fight for the places behind the top 5 as everyone just looks flawed. Newcastle, Man Utd and Brighton are all missing players and all in pretty indifferent form, yet there is still a gap to Chelsea (and Bournemouth who are now level on points with them).

I'm not going to pretend losing to Luton away is a surprise either. It's exactly the kind of faceplant we do.

[#1SzigetFan]

Watching Liverpool - Arsenal... it seems that in the EPL, even if you're not a goalie, you're allowed to dribble the ball in your own box as basketball players do because you won't concede a penalty.

Edited December 23, 2023 by #1SzigetFan

[lost]

On 12/21/2023 at 8:22 PM, thetime said:

So the premier league is full of non English players, non English managers, non English owners, non English fans. But fans are up in arms over a European league.

Crazy really 

I think its the structure rather than it being a European league. First suggestion was obviously founder teams who are there every year which everyone kicked off over. This suggestion well if you start off in the star league its going to be very difficult to ever miss out on euro footy, you'd never get a situation where an Arsenal or Liverpool didnt get it as we have had in recent years.

I also didnt see any numbers for the teams that get promoted / relegated into the 3rd tier so say a team like Fc Copenhagen could build a semi-decent team like this year and miss out entirely.

Edited December 23, 2023 by lost

[charlierc]

17 hours ago, lost said:

I think its the structure rather than it being a European league. First suggestion was obviously founder teams who are there every year which everyone kicked off over. This suggestion well if you start off in the star league its going to be very difficult to ever miss out on euro footy, you'd never get a situation where an Arsenal or Liverpool didnt get it as we have had in recent years.

I also didnt see any numbers for the teams that get promoted / relegated into the 3rd tier so say a team like Fc Copenhagen could build a semi-decent team like this year and miss out entirely.

The whole situation is about control. It's one thing that Barcelona sees this as the solution to their financial problems, though I'm not sure what if anything actually is, but Real Madrid now seem to be taking this as a point of pride that they can shove UEFA out of the Champions League and see this as a way to entrench them ahead of Premier League clubs as the big name in European football.

Indeed, it's the money in the PL which is why this has become acceptable to think about this idea in some corners of Europe. Though I don't think they have enough for now - the ruling itself did not say "UEFA must disband for the good of football", German and French clubs all said no, Premier League clubs are now banned from trying to join it, plus the association that represents Europe's big clubs has now begun working more with UEFA whereas in 2021 there was tension between them, and some journalists have read an interpretation of the rules is that any breakaway competition would need UEFA or FIFA to say yes, which is a turkeys voting for Christmas scenario.

It is a "who do you want to lose more" scenario imo, but I feel like the challenge of trying to make the ESL happen is, right now, a very difficult one.

Edited December 24, 2023 by charlierc

[Skip997]

On 12/23/2023 at 12:11 PM, thetime said:

United down to 5th and 6th choice centre backs. 🤨

Never happened to any top flight club ever before, certainly not a few seasons ago.

Anyway, with today’s news they can overspend on more rubbish.

[thetime]

On 12/24/2023 at 6:16 PM, Skip997 said:

Never happened to any top flight club ever before, certainly not a few seasons ago.

Anyway, with today’s news they can overspend on more rubbish.

Just the way it is, we are in the same position we were in the 70s and 80s. The cycle will come again, it the way it is. Only 2 managers have won titles at united in over 110 years, so could be a while. 😀

[thetime]

Pressure on Howe?

Next 4 games liverpool, Sunderland, City and villa. 

[Neil]

42 minutes ago, thetime said:

Pressure on Howe?

Next 4 games liverpool, Sunderland, City and villa. 

surely he's got a spending spree lined up?

[Neil]

impressed with solanke, looked like his career was taking a dive after being the hot kid at Chelsea getting the big move to Liverpool at a time when other players were hot which didn't give him much opportunity, then shipped out to Bournemouth, where it didn't go well, but he's now turned that around and is now hot as hell. Got to love a try-er.

[thetime]

52 minutes ago, Neil said:

surely he's got a spending spree lined up?

With the current FFP restrictions, I don't think they can. 

[Neil]

28 minutes ago, thetime said:

With the current FFP restrictions, I don't think they can. 

Can probably sell a few players for silly money to Saudi to get funds in to buy

[Skip997]

3 hours ago, thetime said:

With the current FFP restrictions, I don't think they can. 

FFP, what’s that?

That imaginary spending control thing?

Easy, just invent some imaginary companies to sponsor them, have they learned nothing from Man City?

[Neil]

5 minutes ago, Skip997 said:

have they learned nothing from Man City?

a template to copy.

[Neil]

i missed the start of the utd match did Jim R get paraded on the pitch micAEL KNIGHTON STYLEEEE!?

[charlierc]

21 hours ago, thetime said:

Pressure on Howe?

Next 4 games liverpool, Sunderland, City and villa. 

Comes with the territory. December has been a bit of a chore with a disappointment pile-up and I suspect losing to Sunderland in the FA Cup, which is a very real prospect, really won't help.

Most Newcastle fans I know or see are still pro-Howe and I think there's both an understanding it was going to be very difficult to match last season's top 4 finish and that having 10+ players injured/banned in all of November and the first half of December was going to be painful. Losing to Luton and Forest painful, maybe not quite that bad. Giving ex-Mag Chris Wood the scope to grab a hat-trick, including a goal of the month contender for his second, was perhaps less expected.

Just everywhere yesterday are players off it. Almiron looks spent, Gordon has been carrying an injury for a few weeks, Longstaff hasn't been good since coming back from injury, Burn & Botman have come back too soon, Dubravka has drowned as Pope's stand-in, Trippier is well known as out of form and that's for starters.

I also think we made mistakes in summer recruitment. We weren't to know Tonali was getting that gambling ban, but imo he's too similar to Bruno & Willock and was hit-and-miss before then, we needed a new right-winger more than a left in the form of Barnes (who's been injured since September anyway) and Howe doesn't seem to rate Lewis Hall enough to play him. But equally we need new players in Jan, despite us being FFP-marginal - imo a new keeper, CDM and RW are priorities. Maybe also a specialist left-back and somebody up front less injury prone than Wilson or Isak, but I think that's a summer revamp job.

You can take two sides imo. It's one thing that, two years ago today, we were 19th in the Premier League and a squad with 10 players involved against Man U exactly two years ago today is now disappointed to only be 8th seven points off the top four (least until Spurs play tonight) and narrowly falling short in a comically tough Champions League group, but equally, the last few weeks haven't been fun. It's natural some will ask questions, but I think that we just didn't have a squad big or talented enough to manage 10 games in 30 days at this time.

Edited December 27, 2023 by charlierc

[charlierc]

So, Netflix is doing a 2022 World Cup documentary coming out on Saturday, presumably hoping it'll have success like their F1, golf and tennis docu-series. Be interesting to see if this becomes a recurring bit for future tournaments.

[thetime]

3 hours ago, charlierc said:

Comes with the territory. December has been a bit of a chore with a disappointment pile-up and I suspect losing to Sunderland in the FA Cup, which is a very real prospect, really won't help.

Most Newcastle fans I know or see are still pro-Howe and I think there's both an understanding it was going to be very difficult to match last season's top 4 finish and that having 10+ players injured/banned in all of November and the first half of December was going to be painful. Losing to Luton and Forest painful, maybe not quite that bad. Giving ex-Mag Chris Wood the scope to grab a hat-trick, including a goal of the month contender for his second, was perhaps less expected.

Just everywhere yesterday are players off it. Almiron looks spent, Gordon has been carrying an injury for a few weeks, Longstaff hasn't been good since coming back from injury, Burn & Botman have come back too soon, Dubravka has drowned as Pope's stand-in, Trippier is well known as out of form and that's for starters.

I also think we made mistakes in summer recruitment. We weren't to know Tonali was getting that gambling ban, but imo he's too similar to Bruno & Willock and was hit-and-miss before then, we needed a new right-winger more than a left in the form of Barnes (who's been injured since September anyway) and Howe doesn't seem to rate Lewis Hall enough to play him. But equally we need new players in Jan, despite us being FFP-marginal - imo a new keeper, CDM and RW are priorities. Maybe also a specialist left-back and somebody up front less injury prone than Wilson or Isak, but I think that's a summer revamp job.

You can take two sides imo. It's one thing that, two years ago today, we were 19th in the Premier League and a squad with 10 players involved against Man U exactly two years ago today is now disappointed to only be 8th seven points off the top four (least until Spurs play tonight) and narrowly falling short in a comically tough Champions League group, but equally, the last few weeks haven't been fun. It's natural some will ask questions, but I think that we just didn't have a squad big or talented enough to manage 10 games in 30 days at this time.

Yeah you got to take everything in perspective, as I have said before its going to take a lot longer than the chelsea and city models imo. Due to more stringent FFP, for me City will be the last to get away with so much with FFP. So on that score Newcastle have missed the boat.

 

[Neil]

2 hours ago, thetime said:

Yeah you got to take everything in perspective, as I have said before its going to take a lot longer than the chelsea and city models imo. Due to more stringent FFP, for me City will be the last to get away with so much with FFP. So on that score Newcastle have missed the boat.

 

everton too. 😛 

[Neil]

6 hours ago, charlierc said:

So, Netflix is doing a 2022 World Cup documentary coming out on Saturday, presumably hoping it'll have success like their F1, golf and tennis docu-series. Be interesting to see if this becomes a recurring bit for future tournaments.

so the EPL on netflix then.

[Neil]

Just now, Neil said:

so the EPL on netflix then.

and (i bet) including inter miami. 😞 

[charlierc]

3 hours ago, thetime said:

Yeah you got to take everything in perspective, as I have said before its going to take a lot longer than the chelsea and city models imo. Due to more stringent FFP, for me City will be the last to get away with so much with FFP. So on that score Newcastle have missed the boat.

 

I suspect as well that every PL season going forward is going to be super competitive for the European places if there's going to be a rich 7 plus one or two teams more than capable of breaking into the top 6 if any of those are off colour a la Leicester's top 5 finishes in 19/20 & 20/21, Brighton last season or Aston Villa currently being in a Champions League place.

Much as Chelsea are trying to spend their way to the Championship, anyway.

[kaosmark2]

On 12/27/2023 at 1:52 PM, charlierc said:

Comes with the territory. December has been a bit of a chore with a disappointment pile-up and I suspect losing to Sunderland in the FA Cup, which is a very real prospect, really won't help.

Most Newcastle fans I know or see are still pro-Howe and I think there's both an understanding it was going to be very difficult to match last season's top 4 finish and that having 10+ players injured/banned in all of November and the first half of December was going to be painful. Losing to Luton and Forest painful, maybe not quite that bad. Giving ex-Mag Chris Wood the scope to grab a hat-trick, including a goal of the month contender for his second, was perhaps less expected.

Just everywhere yesterday are players off it. Almiron looks spent, Gordon has been carrying an injury for a few weeks, Longstaff hasn't been good since coming back from injury, Burn & Botman have come back too soon, Dubravka has drowned as Pope's stand-in, Trippier is well known as out of form and that's for starters.

I also think we made mistakes in summer recruitment. We weren't to know Tonali was getting that gambling ban, but imo he's too similar to Bruno & Willock and was hit-and-miss before then, we needed a new right-winger more than a left in the form of Barnes (who's been injured since September anyway) and Howe doesn't seem to rate Lewis Hall enough to play him. But equally we need new players in Jan, despite us being FFP-marginal - imo a new keeper, CDM and RW are priorities. Maybe also a specialist left-back and somebody up front less injury prone than Wilson or Isak, but I think that's a summer revamp job.

You can take two sides imo. It's one thing that, two years ago today, we were 19th in the Premier League and a squad with 10 players involved against Man U exactly two years ago today is now disappointed to only be 8th seven points off the top four (least until Spurs play tonight) and narrowly falling short in a comically tough Champions League group, but equally, the last few weeks haven't been fun. It's natural some will ask questions, but I think that we just didn't have a squad big or talented enough to manage 10 games in 30 days at this time.

I agree with most of this, but isn't there a thing about a bonus payment to Chelsea if Hall plays too many games? Am I imagining that? Though you'd have thought that now is the time to play him if ever.

I think it's hard to say we needed a right-winger more than left-winger in the summer. Gordon's form was sketchy Jan-June and Almiron was just utterly brilliant in that period. Given that Barnes can play right wing as well as left, it felt like a reasonable choice at the time. 

Up front, surely there's a case to recall that Aussie striker we've got out on loan somewhere? There's been a few 17-21 year olds we've signed and loaned out and maybe the FFP solution is to play some of them.