news & politics:discussion

[steviewevie]

Just now, kaosmark2 said:

Not everyone who voted for Brexit is racist. Many thought a promise on the side of a bus was believable.

ok, well maybe not everyone who thinks we should recruit more nurses and doctors from UK are racist either.

[kaosmark2]

Just now, steviewevie said:

ok, well maybe not everyone who thinks we should recruit more nurses and doctors from UK are racist either.

I expect higher standards of thought and consideration on such issues from a future PM than I do your average voter.

I think his comment was either stupid or intentional racist bait.

[steviewevie]

1 minute ago, kaosmark2 said:

I expect higher standards of thought and consideration on such issues from a future PM than I do your average voter.

I think his comment was either stupid or intentional racist bait.

he certainly is not for free movement, wants controls on immigration similar to what has been proposed by govt..points based and all that. Not sure how racist that is, but maybe it's sweet spot to winning an election...left on economics, bit of patriotism/nationalism, sprinkling of racism. I am not happy about it either, but I'm just part of the metropolitan liberal elite.

But...I do think we need to train more nurses and doctors here, what happens if some global event like a pandemic happens again and we are not able to recruit from abroad...?

[kaosmark2]

1 minute ago, steviewevie said:

he certainly is not for free movement, wants controls on immigration similar to what has been proposed by govt..points based and all that. Not sure how racist that is, but maybe it's sweet spot to winning an election...left on economics, bit of patriotism/nationalism, sprinkling of racism. I am not happy about it either, but I'm just part of the metropolitan liberal elite.

But...I do think we need to train more nurses and doctors here, what happens if some global event like a pandemic happens again and we are not able to recruit from abroad...?

You can't cut recruitment from abroad without training more first, or having the NHS understaffed. It's not a complex messages for him to acknowledge.

Workers here are not a ready made replacement.

[steviewevie]

11 minutes ago, kaosmark2 said:

You can't cut recruitment from abroad without training more first, or having the NHS understaffed. It's not a complex messages for him to acknowledge.

Workers here are not a ready made replacement.

yes, so he's saying we need to train more here.

[Guest]

One of my sisters who’s a Nurse says the biggest issue in recent years is getting rid of the Bursary, as a result there isn’t anywhere near the amount of people going into nursing.

[steviewevie]

[Guest]

44 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

How dreamy. 

[kaosmark2]

1 hour ago, steviewevie said:

yes, so he's saying we need to train more here.

So talk about the training plans. And the funding for that training.

[cellar]

2 hours ago, kaosmark2 said:

Voters may agree, but a much better phrasing is something along the lines of:

"We need to recruit from abroad now to fill the gaping holes the Tories have left in our NHS. That said, Labour will introduce new training programs, bursaries, and a better pay packet so that we our next generation will have sufficient capacity from domestic recruitment"

Starmer is just appealing to racists right now.

Yeah pretty much this. And if the response is "well that's how he's going to win the election," then we're really in a sorry state. 

[steviewevie]

25 minutes ago, kaosmark2 said:

So talk about the training plans. And the funding for that training.

well that's how he's going to win the election

[Guest]

Also the plans are fully funded which is one thing the press/Tories use to bash Labour with all the time and one key important factor needed to win other the public.

[cellar]

33 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

well that's how he's going to win the election

Lol. I'm never going to get anything done now that I've got sucked into this thread 😂

[steviewevie]

 

[Guest]

 

It looks like the polls are settling at around 20ish % Labour leads which is very strong even before the fiscal statement. I imagine they'll close up some more but still that's really good.

[steviewevie]

 

[steviewevie]

 

[steviewevie]

Musk has said his followers should vote republican...for balance or something.

[Neil]

2 hours ago, Barry Fish said:

Just wondering if the posters who where so very keen on lockdowns and furlough accept any responsibility for this mess we are currently in ?

furlough was affordable  wasn't too much of a load. also better than death.

[charlierc]

7 hours ago, cellar said:

From the bits I've read (not massive amounts, usually from things a friend shares), the situation sounds grim for the Dems, even despite the things you mention. That attack on Paul Pelosi is particularly scary too, it just all seems wrapped up in this violent narrative that surrounds Trump and his supports (maybe that is a fairly simplistic view).

But yeah I would never bet either way on Biden and Trump being on the ballot in 2024. 

It sounds like the Dems failed to engage the economy question, which I'm not sure you can have the luxury of doing during in an inflation crisis. I'm not pretending that there aren't problems - the abortion repeal was a travesty and Republican anti-democratic moves in saying they won't respect results of elections they lose are awful - but not engaging in that is an Achilles heel that anyone could exploit.

Plus yeah, too many people are coming around to thinking political violence is justified in the USA, and there's been too little reconciliation of how fucked up the January 6 2021 storming of the Capitol was. The attack on Paul Pelosi and attempts by the US right to say "Don't blame us for what someone who listens to us did" is also fucked up.

I mean, I still think it's plausible, but equally, I don't think I know what the consequence of neither of those two being around might be.

[charlierc]

19 hours ago, steviewevie said:

Don't the Dems regularly win the popular vote but still lose? Anyway..I can see a definite path to Trump standing in 2024, losing, claiming he was robbed again, and then bedlam. There are a lot of wound up and angry people over there, and they all have lots of guns.

I think Presidential and midterm elections are different, in that these are perhaps closer to MP elections - it's electing Senators, Reps, Governors etc rather than Presidential ones. But it's a mess, and yeah, as said, Trump losing a 2024 election and running around claiming he was really the winner can only end badly, especially if he has a lot of allies willing to put a partisan thumb on the scale that weren't there in 2020.

[Guest]

Sunak is speaking at COP atm, you know the guys who’s funded by fossil fuel companies and the one that was going to go until a few days ago. Inspirational stuff. 

[steviewevie]

5 minutes ago, Neil said:

furlough was affordable  wasn't too much of a load. also better than death.

furloughs and lockdowns are to blame are straight out of the right/libertarian bottom.

yes it was expensive, but it saved a lot of jobs, was necessary to keep health services from being totally overwhelmed, and was a one off that would be paid off over time.

The problems we have now is from supply lines getting all messed up during and post covid, Russia invading Ukraine, brexit, and a bit of wild trussonomics...and already struggling public services from a decade of tory fuckedeconomics.

[steviewevie]

5 minutes ago, charlierc said:

I think Presidential and midterm elections are different, in that these are perhaps closer to MP elections - it's electing Senators, Reps, Governors etc rather than Presidential ones. But it's a mess, and yeah, as said, Trump losing a 2024 election and running around claiming he was really the winner can only end badly, especially if he has a lot of allies willing to put a partisan thumb on the scale that weren't there in 2020.

I think it's all going to end badly in US. Too far gone. I think we need to distance ourselves from them...trouble is...money.

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

furloughs and lockdowns are to blame are straight out of the right/libertarian bottom.

yes it was expensive, but it saved a lot of jobs, was necessary to keep health services from being totally overwhelmed, and was a one off that would be paid off over time.

The problems we have now is from supply lines getting all messed up during and post covid, Russia invading Ukraine, brexit, and a bit of wild trussonomics...and already struggling public services from a decade of tory fuckedeconomics.

It’s also worth remembering that if we had gone into lockdown earlier on all 3 occasions then the lockdowns wouldn’t have needed to be as long. It’s on Johnson for all of them.