news & politics:discussion

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, Neil said:

if labour can just stop the country being as sh*t as it is.so that some thing work again. i remember when we used to have a working post service.

I would be willing to bet money that they will do. As I said yesterday even the worst Labour government will be much better than the best Tory one. 

[steviewevie]

Frank Gardner has deleted his tweet about the Hamas hostage offer.

[Neil]

3 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

Frank Gardner has deleted his tweet about the Hamas hostage offer.

what was that?

[Neil]

has jez asked his friends to release them?

[Skip997]

Just now, Neil said:

has jez asked his friends to release them?

I'm not sure he has any friends in Gaza atm.

Maybe some were unfortunate to get stuck while visiting relatives.

[steviewevie]

1 minute ago, Neil said:

what was that?

that Hamas had offered to release some hostages in return for an Israeli ceasefire.

Who knows what is going on behind the scenes...

[Neil]

do you know....? Gaza has got eight universities. that seems an extreme number in a small space.

(i guess teaching hospitals might be classed as universities within that count).

[Skip997]

5 minutes ago, Neil said:

do you know....? Gaza has got eight universities. that seems an extreme number in a small space.

(i guess teaching hospitals might be classed as universities within that count).

And

Clearly a well educated people

[steviewevie]

 

[Skip997]

Israeli defence minister vows to cut ties with Gaza Strip after war
 

Quote

 

The Israeli defence minister says that Once the war with Hamas is over, Israel will bring to an end its "responsibility" for life in the Gaza Strip.

During a briefing to parliament's foreign affairs and defence committee, Yoav Gallant listed the severing of ties with the coastal enclave as one objective of Israel's military campaign.

Gallant also outlined objectives of "the elimination of Hamas and destruction of both its military and governing capabilities" and the "creation of a new security reality in the region", according to a statement.

Israel withdrew its troops and settlers from Gaza in 2005, though it retained control over its airspace, shared border and shoreline.

 

Anyone any idea what this actually means.

How are Israeli "responsible" for life in the Gaza strip?

[steviewevie]

4 minutes ago, Skip997 said:

Israeli defence minister vows to cut ties with Gaza Strip after war
 

Anyone any idea what this actually means.

How are Israeli "responsible" for life in the Gaza strip?

currently controls its borders doesn't it?

Edited October 20, 2023 by steviewevie

[steviewevie]

but I guess he also means that they plan to go in and take out Hamas, but don't plan to stay and govern. Simple.

[Skip997]

2 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

currently controls its borders doesn't it?

Yes

But I'm still unclear as to what it means

[steviewevie]

or maybe that there would be no routes between Gaza and Israel after the war...because I think some Gazans did come into Israel for work and stuff previously...

[Skip997]

Just now, steviewevie said:

or maybe that there would be no routes between Gaza and Israel after the war...because I think some Gazans did come into Israel for work and stuff previously...

This what I fear

Absolutely no way to get anything in

[steviewevie]

3 minutes ago, Skip997 said:

This what I fear

Absolutely no way to get anything in

There's still the Egypt border, and the sea.

Anyway, we don't know what that really means...or what the hell is going to happen. 

[Skip997]

1 minute ago, steviewevie said:

There's still the Egypt border, and the sea.

Anyway, we don't know what that really means...or what the hell is going to happen. 

True

[lazyred]

5 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

but I guess he also means that they plan to go in and take out Hamas, but don't plan to stay and govern. Simple.

Read a comment piece today saying this. It would be very difficult/impossible for Isreal to administer Gaza once Hamas are done. Apparently long term they want the Palestian Authority to control Gaza again. The PA won't accept any offers from Isreal so in the short term they will ask Arab Govts to be peace keepers followed by the PA in a year or two. Their big problem is getting the Arab Govts to commit. A smaller problem is the extreme end of the Govt coalition want to create settlements in Gaza but that's not official policy yet.

[cellar]

40 minutes ago, Skip997 said:

Yes

But I'm still unclear as to what it means

They are also technically responsible for security, food and medical supplies, and I think some administrative roles, under laws of occupation. 

Maybe they are alluding to this - but in order for them to not be considered as occupiers, they would need to give up control of airspace etc. That's possibly what they mean by new security reality.

[lazyred]

On the other hand there's a piece in the Guardian saying Isreal want to drive the Gazans out permanantly to the Sinai part of Egypt.

[Skip997]

1 minute ago, lazyred said:

On the other hand there's a piece in the Guardian saying Isreal want to drive the Gazans out permanantly to the Sinai part of Egypt.

Doesn't take much to realise this

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/oct/20/israel-palestinians-egypt-west-bombs-rafah-border-crossing

Edited October 20, 2023 by Skip997

[lazyred]

1 minute ago, Skip997 said:

Doesn't take much to realise this

Well the other analysis in the Times says the opposite so who knows. When its all speculation we believe what makes us comfortable.

[lazyred]

These are the 2 opinion pieces for comparison. I hope its the first one because the second one is no solution to anything.

What happens after Israel invades Gaza? There’s no clear exit plan

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/6679a02a-6ebf-11ee-b0f3-053d83492f27?shareToken=5b026229b41df1836182e853ab116049

 

Israel’s endgame is to push Palestinians into Egypt – and the west is cheering it on

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/oct/20/israel-palestinians-egypt-west-bombs-rafah-border-crossing

 

[lost]

1 hour ago, steviewevie said:

There's still the Egypt border, and the sea.

 

They need that bloke who can part the Red Sea unless the escape route from Egypt only works one way.

[steviewevie]

38 minutes ago, lazyred said:

These are the 2 opinion pieces for comparison. I hope its the first one because the second one is no solution to anything.

What happens after Israel invades Gaza? There’s no clear exit plan

 

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/6679a02a-6ebf-11ee-b0f3-053d83492f27?shareToken=5b026229b41df1836182e853ab116049

 

 

Israel’s endgame is to push Palestinians into Egypt – and the west is cheering it on

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/oct/20/israel-palestinians-egypt-west-bombs-rafah-border-crossing

 

No one knows. Israel probably don't know either. A lot depends on what happens with Hamas. So I'd say the Times one is more accurate at this stage.

Edited October 20, 2023 by steviewevie