news & politics:discussion

[Rufus Gwertigan]

35 minutes ago, mattiloy said:

Out of interest, if the UK electoral system switched to proportional representation, who here would still vote for Starmer’s Labour?

I'd probably switch to Green maybe Liberal at a push.

[Neil]

59 minutes ago, mattiloy said:

Out of interest, if the UK electoral system switched to proportional representation, who here would still vote for Starmer’s Labour?

the so9lidarity labour requires to win would break down, as the leftists would rate purity more important than making a difference.

 

pr is a tory victory.

[steviewevie]

5 minutes ago, Neil said:

the so9lidarity labour requires to win would break down, as the leftists would rate purity more important than making a difference.

 

pr is a tory victory.

Tories have similar issues..purity versus pragmatism..

[mattiloy]

49 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

But also starmer's labour would likely be very different as he wouldn't necessarily be trying to woo certain parts of the electorate.

They’ve kicked out all the left wing folk, blocked even soft left candidates from standing as MPs. I’d say Starmer and the rest of the people in control of the party just are what they say they are.

And if Starmer is doing some grand Trojan horse job, how does he take a party that barely has any remaining left wing members or MPs with him when he suddenly pivots that way once in office- or in this scenario, once PR comes into play.

[steviewevie]

8 minutes ago, mattiloy said:

They’ve kicked out all the left wing folk, blocked even soft left candidates from standing as MPs. I’d say Starmer and the rest of the people in control of the party just are what they say they are.

And if Starmer is doing some grand Trojan horse job, how does he take a party that barely has any remaining left wing members or MPs with him when he suddenly pivots that way once in office- or in this scenario, once PR comes into play.

Err..well it's all hypothetical but he got rid of Corbyn because he was a disaster for labour electorally, and is ridding any potential dissenters because if wins a small majority doesn't want an ERG equivalent sitting behind him.

But fuck knows what it would be like under PR, it could all be totally different. 

So impossible to say who I'd vote for, labour with a 2017 manifesto but without Corbyn maybe? A green party maybe? Or maybe the anarchy party.

Edited April 9, 2023 by steviewevie

[mattiloy]

3 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

Err..well it's all hypothetical but he got rid of Corbyn because he was a disaster for labour electorally, and is ridding any potential dissenters because if wins a small majority doesn't want an ERG equivalent sitting behind him.

But fuck knows what it would be like under PR, it could all be totally different. 

So impossible to say who I'd vote for, labour with a 2017 manifesto but without Corbyn maybe? A green party maybe? Or maybe the anarchy party.

Well from the general secretary to the executive committee to most constituency parties, the Labour party is now dominated by the Labour right who just fundamentally don’t believe in the things in the 2017 manifesto so if PR were to happen, the Labour party isn’t really in a position to change. It would just mean the exodus of anybody who remains who does believe in all that good stuff.

I don’t know what the unions would do, whether they’d disaffiliate or not. Imagine a few would if there was a viable alternative.

[steviewevie]

7 minutes ago, mattiloy said:

Well from the general secretary to the executive committee to most constituency parties, the Labour party is now dominated by the Labour right who just fundamentally don’t believe in the things in the 2017 manifesto so if PR were to happen, the Labour party isn’t really in a position to change. It would just mean the exodus of anybody who remains who does believe in all that good stuff.

I don’t know what the unions would do, whether they’d disaffiliate or not. Imagine a few would if there was a viable alternative.

Fuck knows.

I guess it is likely labour would split, and likely Tories would split, and we'd end up with coalitions either similar to today's Tories or Labour, but with months of negotiations and deals after each election which we have to have every year or so due to coalitions falling apart.

Edited April 9, 2023 by steviewevie

[Neil]

45 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

Tories have similar issues..purity versus pragmatism..

they come to the surface less often, and are less likely to affect things going forwards.

[steviewevie]

4 minutes ago, Neil said:

they come to the surface less often, and are less likely to affect things going forwards.

ERG and hard brexit etc

[Neil]

47 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

ERG and hard brexit etc

its over for them - they won't be indulged going forwards, i reckon.

[steviewevie]

3 minutes ago, Neil said:

its over for them - they won't be indulged going forwards, i reckon.

No but last few years their influence has been massive.

[steviewevie]

Anyway we're not going to get a labour govt or pr because the Tories are going to win.

 

[Neil]

Just now, steviewevie said:

No but last few years their influence has been massive.

yes, but the issue they can exercise leverage from is over, while labour have been beating themselves up and splitting for 100+ years.

[Guest]

 

[Neil]

Kier starmer,so good at banging up criminals that the queen gave him a medal ror it.

[Neil]

1 hour ago, steviewevie said:

No but last few years their influence has been massive.

Because their issue had prominence, nothing to do with them.

[steviewevie]

Starmer going full Daily Mail.

[Neil]

BBC - "govt funded media"

twitter - "idiot controlled media"

[steviewevie]

what she says too.

 

[Neil]

cost-of living-crisis - top-tip.

save money by eating those long forgotten jars and tins in your fridge?

 

 

[Neil]

3 hours ago, steviewevie said:

Starmer going full Daily Mail.

scotland is going full daily mail, saying its wrong to let child rapists go free, saying that self-id gender should be ignored, and saying  that fraud & theft should be investigated.

[Neil]

1 minute ago, Neil said:

 saying that self-id gender should be ignored

blackford says sturgeon's doings are a democratic outrage.

[steviewevie]

26 minutes ago, Neil said:

scotland is going full daily mail, saying its wrong to let child rapists go free, saying that self-id gender should be ignored, and saying  that fraud & theft should be investigated.

wow

[lost]

Its nothing new:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2001/jun/24/bulger.uk

[Neil]

5 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

wow

ALL SNP LEGAL ISSUES THIS WEEK.

 

THERE'S A LOT TO SORT OUT.