news & politics:discussion

[steviewevie]

 

[Neil]

when s someone going to join up the dots and say Bristol is immigrant friendly cos everyone's on drugs. 😛 

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-68082844

[steviewevie]

[steviewevie]

The Hague court SA vs Israel genocide thing will give first ruling today...will possibly order Israel to stop its fighting in Gaza, which Israel will probably ignore, but will put on even more international pressure for them to cease. The actual genocide decision won't be for years I don't think.

[Neil]

18 hours ago, Nobody Interesting said:

Yep, simple sound bites aimed at those who find thought  a tad tricky - some of which frequent these forums.

yes - we're all part of that brain-dead electorate, but some of us live in places where only the good guys get votes. 🙂 

[steviewevie]

Nearly time to find out whether ICJ are antisemitic terrorist supporters or zionist genocide supporters.

(hope they rule against Israel if makes a ceasefire more likely).

[steviewevie]

Ok, court has ordered provisional measures for Israel to carry out to prevent genocide etc...and Israel has to provide a report in a month that have abided to these measures. Something like that. Anyway, victory to those who want this carnage in Gaza to stop. Hopefully something positive will come from it, not optimistic it will though.

Edited January 26 by steviewevie

[kaosmark2]

11 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

Ok, court has ordered provisional measures for Israel to carry out to prevent genocide etc...and Israel has to provide a report in a month that have abided to these measures. Something like that. Anyway, victory to those who want this carnage in Gaza to stop. Hopefully something positive will come from it, not optimistic it will though.

What will other countries do if Israel don't comply? Wag their fingers and tell Netanyahu off?

[steviewevie]

2 minutes ago, kaosmark2 said:

What will other countries do if Israel don't comply? Wag their fingers and tell Netanyahu off?

what can they do? Sanctions I guess. But I don't think Israel has to comply, like Russia didn't.

It doesn't rule that there should be a ceasefire, but that any harm to civilians should be prevented and aid needs to get in...which would mean a ceasefire really. Israel will rubbish this of course, but maybe it will help with the apparently negotiations that are going on in Qatar towards a truce/ceasefire and a hostage release.

[steviewevie]

I guess all eyes on what US (and UK/Germany etc) governments say. Will they recognise this ruling?

And of course what will Starmer say, that is what the world is waiting for.

[kaosmark2]

5 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

what can they do? Sanctions I guess. But I don't think Israel has to comply, like Russia didn't.

It doesn't rule that there should be a ceasefire, but that any harm to civilians should be prevented and aid needs to get in...which would mean a ceasefire really. Israel will rubbish this of course, but maybe it will help with the apparently negotiations that are going on in Qatar towards a truce/ceasefire and a hostage release.

Given that Israel is officially allied with US/UK/France, I don't see there being any sanctions actually happen. Not even the extent of what was imposed on Russia (which was clearly insufficient).

There's quite a lot of strawman arguments going on in various debates where people try and equate calls for a ceasefire and the end of the genocide to suggesting that Israel has to walk over and just let Hamas commit terrorism. But Israel isn't defending itself atm, it's using a specific terrorist incidence to try and justify genocide and territory expansion.

[steviewevie]

6 minutes ago, kaosmark2 said:

Given that Israel is officially allied with US/UK/France, I don't see there being any sanctions actually happen. Not even the extent of what was imposed on Russia (which was clearly insufficient).

 

sanctions from elsewhere...Russia, China, Arab neighbours, Africa etc. 

I don't know, not a lot may come from it, I think Israel stopping will more likely come from internal pressure than external pressure.

[steviewevie]

...but also it isn't a total win for pro Palestinians...it didn't rule for an immediate ceasefire, and said Hamas must release all hostages...so...kind of messy.

[kaosmark2]

3 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

...but also it isn't a total win for pro Palestinians...it didn't rule for an immediate ceasefire, and said Hamas must release all hostages...so...kind of messy.

I find it crazy that the idea that people in support of a two-state solution are being labelled as pro-Palestine at the moment. Not accusing you, just more general rhetoric.

[Skip997]

Ah yea, all very nice and all that, but it's just a request, no way to enforce it.

[steviewevie]

2 minutes ago, kaosmark2 said:

I find it crazy that the idea that people in support of a two-state solution are being labelled as pro-Palestine at the moment. Not accusing you, just more general rhetoric.

ok, not sure how else to describe. Pro South African? Anti Israel? Pro peace? I mean, no one in that region seems to want a two state solution as far as I can gather.

[steviewevie]

 

[kaosmark2]

10 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

ok, not sure how else to describe. Pro South African? Anti Israel? Pro peace? I mean, no one in that region seems to want a two state solution as far as I can gather.

Yeah. I'd largely say it's "anti-genocide". I mean yeah I consider myself pro-peace, but there are moral interventionist wars that can be justified. I'd definitely say "anti-Israel" or "pro-Palestine" has a bit more of a "from the river to the sea" vibes and desire for the destruction of Israel as opposed to opposing its racist government committing war crimes.

It's a deeply nuanced situation with no simple terminology that sufficiently covers those nuances.

[steviewevie]

 

[steviewevie]

now looks like a spring election could be back on...

[Justiceforcedave]

5 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

now looks like a spring election could be back on...

Where?

[steviewevie]

8 minutes ago, Justiceforcedave said:

Where?

 

[steviewevie]

also

 

[steviewevie]

Just now, steviewevie said:

also

 

[Ozanne]

Also a pretty big political commentator has been saying a May election too. I’ve been saying it for a while…