Brexit at Glasto?

[hfuhruhurr]

11 hours ago, ghostdancer1 said:

 

This is unforgivable from the opposition - at a time when the government are so useless that their own people are resigning.

You can't really blame the press or anything/anyone else - as a politician, you're in charge of your popularity, and yet, he manages to be less popular by a huge margin. This empowers the Tories, it empowers the Brexiters. Right now he's the biggest tool in the Tory war chest.

In his quest for 30 odd leave seats, in his deluded (and incorrect) notion that he can't achieve his vision inside the EU, he is willing to damage this country beyond repair.

As for the Norway option - ffs - study it, ask Norwegians for their oil and their sovereign wealth - ask them to swap over populations, ask to drop out of the G7. Have some faith in our G7 nation - have some faith that we are a leading nation in Europe, not subservient. That's the anger of the remain - we're a fabulous nation and all leave want to do is, well, what? Be pathetic somewhere.

 

[Scott129]

3 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

yay, let's all get behind the mediocre because some people don't understand the benefits of the EU.  

Personally I don't see how a bad option that no one actually wants satisfies anyone apart from those who don't care.

I think if we go Norway we may as well just remain, because you accept everything but have no say (I was just showing what that poll said). However with a custons union you can at least end free movement (which lets face it was the primary voting factor) and then it's a somewhat fair compromise. I don't believe most ordinary leave voters care about negotiating our trade deals etc, they just want out of the EU and to end free movement. 

[Scott129]

4 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

more seriously, that poll says that a Norway option is thought of as bad by as many as May's deal, and May's deal is as acceptable as Norway.

So thought of as very shit.

Yay, let's do what's shit.  That'll stop things being shit.  

30% think norway is bad v 42% Mays deal

46% think its an good/acceptable outcome v 37% Mays deal 

 

[eFestivals]

39 minutes ago, Scott129 said:

I think if we go Norway we may as well just remain, because you accept everything but have no say (I was just showing what that poll said). However with a custons union you can at least end free movement (which lets face it was the primary voting factor) and then it's a somewhat fair compromise. I don't believe most ordinary leave voters care about negotiating our trade deals etc, they just want out of the EU and to end free movement. 

A CU is not enough, as it doesn't address the Ireland border.

The Labour proposition is not merely a CU, it's also "the benefits of the single market" - which comes with the responsibilities, FoM.

(and that's FoM, not the slightly-weaker EEA version of work-only movement).

It's no coincidence that Corbyn never mentions FoM when he says that a CU/SM option is the answer.

[eFestivals]

38 minutes ago, Scott129 said:

30% think norway is bad v 42% Mays deal

46% think its an good/acceptable outcome v 37% Mays deal 

 

add up all of the not-opposed, and they're just about identical in their supportable aspects.

[zahidf]

Definite evidence of a big swing towards remain in the last year

 

[Scott129]

22 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

A CU is not enough, as it doesn't address the Ireland border.

The Labour proposition is not merely a CU, it's also "the benefits of the single market" - which comes with the responsibilities, FoM.

(and that's FoM, not the slightly-weaker EEA version of work-only movement).

It's no coincidence that Corbyn never mentions FoM when he says that a CU/SM option is the answer.

As you've pointed out previously, any deal would have to include the backstop. That would mean a customs union and regulatory allignment on some single market issues (not full access) to avoid a hard border, with no freedom of movement. So when it was possible to avoid a hard border through other means, we would leave the backstop and join a permanent customs union with as much single market access as possible (certainly not full) without fotm. 

[eFestivals]

3 minutes ago, Scott129 said:

with as much single market access as possible

that's not Jez's proposal.

[Wooderson]

Glasto has to take its share of the blame for the fawning misguided shite on the Pyramid in ‘17. If that arsehole is ever invited back that’s me done with the festival. 

Edited March 26, 2019 by Wooderson

[Scott129]

11 minutes ago, Wooderson said:

Glasto has to take its share of the blame for the fawning misguided shite on the Pyramid in ‘17. If that arsehole is ever invited back that’s me done with the festival. 

He's probably invited this year tbf, whether he goes or not is another matter 

[Scott129]

20 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

that's not Jez's proposal.

Yes it is, a permanent customs union and strong single market access. A transition period in the custom union and full single market access. 

Of course if labour was negotiating it would try to get full single market access as a starting point for negotiations 

[clarkete]

15 minutes ago, Wooderson said:

Glasto has to take its share of the blame for the fawning misguided shite on the Pyramid in ‘17. If that arsehole is ever invited back that’s me done with the festival. 

Stop press. Man who owns farm has supported Labour for decades, presumably still supports Labour. 

[zahidf]

Nothing to do with me: I voted remain...

 

[eFestivals]

7 minutes ago, Scott129 said:

Yes it is, a permanent customs union and strong single market access.

As I said, that's not Jez's proposition.

His is "the benefits of the single market".

All, not just some.

[eFestivals]

8 minutes ago, Scott129 said:

A transition period in the custom union and full single market access. 

May's deal, then.  

[Wooderson]

8 minutes ago, zahidf said:

Nothing to do with me: I voted remain...

 

I don't blame these people. "Leaver" will eventually be as toxic as "racist".

[DeanoL]

1 hour ago, Scott129 said:

He's probably invited this year tbf, whether he goes or not is another matter 

Leftfield at least used to invite all the party leaders as a matter of course. Few ever took them up on it though.

[zahidf]

Looking at the replies, his u turn is NOT popular.

[Scott129]

2 hours ago, eFestivals said:

As I said, that's not Jez's proposition.

His is "the benefits of the single market".

All, not just some.

I think you may be confusing labours 6 tests v what their actual position is. The 6 tests were a mechanism by which to hold the tories to account for the promises they themselves made. Labours policy isn't about FULL access to the single market, it is close alignment with it. 

 

2 hours ago, eFestivals said:

May's deal, then.  

The backstop yes, as you've pointed out that cant be stopped. But labour from the start said their transition would include both, to allow businesses to prepare

[Scott129]

1 hour ago, DeanoL said:

Leftfield at least used to invite all the party leaders as a matter of course. Few ever took them up on it though.

They may still for all I know, Boris was there a few years ago, not Leftfield but Glastonbury (which he couldn't pronounce). 

They had the Green Party leader there last year also. I doubt Corbyn will be there but i'm sure he's welcome and wouldn't surprise me if McDonnell was on leftfield again

[eFestivals]

7 minutes ago, Scott129 said:

I think you may be confusing labours 6 tests v what their actual position is.

they have a position?  

That's news to everyone including Corbyn who makes it up on the hoof. 

[eFestivals]

8 minutes ago, Scott129 said:

The backstop yes, as you've pointed out that cant be stopped. But labour from the start said their transition would include both, to allow businesses to prepare

May's transition includes both.

[Scott129]

2 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

they have a position?  

That's news to everyone including Corbyn who makes it up on the hoof. 

No it's been the position since like October 2017. Negotiate a permanent customs union and strong access to the single market (i.e. As much as we can get). 

From conference, if the tories negotiate a bad deal that doesn't protect jobs then labour supports putting it back to the people either through an election or second ref

3 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

May's transition includes both.

Agreed. Labour don't have a problem with the backstop, they object to the political declaration which is tied to the WA (not legally but politically). If they were to allow May to pass the WA it would mean she (or some brexiteer) would be negotiating the trading arrangements and would not negotiate a permanent customs union.

[eFestivals]

1 minute ago, Scott129 said:

strong access to the single market (i.e. As much as we can get). 

which would be with FoM.

He's not been saying "as much as we can get without FoM". He's gone silent on FoM; there's a reason why.

2 minutes ago, Scott129 said:

Agreed. Labour don't have a problem with the backstop, they object to the political declaration which is tied to the WA (not legally but politically). If they were to allow May to pass the WA it would mean she (or some brexiteer) would be negotiating the trading arrangements and would not negotiate a permanent customs union.

Labour do have a problem with the backstop, and have been suggesting (you can see it said in this thread again and again) they can get a WA without the backstop.

And Corbyn has also been slagging off the WA, essentially saying he couldn't support that.

So if he got his wish, he'd have to eat some of his words... tho he's been happily doing that anyway.

[Scott129]

12 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

He's not been saying "as much as we can get without FoM". He's gone silent on FoM; there's a reason why.

If it was the case Labours position would include FoM then surely they'd be arguing for Norway (as thats what it would be). Rather than specifically being a customs union with strong access