Formula 1

[charlierc]

On 9/14/2023 at 10:52 PM, DareToDibble said:

Bit behind on this but 100% agree, it would be incredible to see. He's done it all, shame he (so far) hasn't got the 8th title but seeing Lewis in a Ferrari would be unreal. Imagine a 1 year deal with them for 2026 when they nail the new regulations and he gets his 8th before retiring.

Sign me up.

I think it's come up a few times, hasn't it? Hamilton was linked with Red Bull around the time Vettel was the recurring champion, and has been on-off linked with Ferrari for ages. I do think there's a legit shout now that he'll retire at Mercedes, whether it's at the end of his new deal in 2025 or sticking around for one year to try out the 2026 rule changes.

[charlierc]

Well, Zandvoort and Monza were both good watches as returns from the August pause, but this got very good. Red Bull being unexpectedly poor in qualy, even if Verstappen did very well to get a P5 out of that, and a genuine battle for the lead.

Sainz deserved it with some smart work in using Norris as a Mercedes barrier that got Russell to burn up his tyres even before he made that massive error at the end. Was a bit meh until the Sargant safety car and for a while the main excitement was everyone getting to overtake a Red Bull for the first time this year, but after the Ocon VSC, some good stuff.

[DareToDibble]

On 9/17/2023 at 3:40 PM, charlierc said:

I think it's come up a few times, hasn't it? Hamilton was linked with Red Bull around the time Vettel was the recurring champion, and has been on-off linked with Ferrari for ages. I do think there's a legit shout now that he'll retire at Mercedes, whether it's at the end of his new deal in 2025 or sticking around for one year to try out the 2026 rule changes.

I would be shocked if his new deal to 2025 didn't include some kind of extension clause for him to do exactly that - if Mercedes nail the 2026 regs like they did the hybrid era then he can cruise to an 8th title and retire.

[DareToDibble]

On 9/17/2023 at 3:42 PM, charlierc said:

Well, Zandvoort and Monza were both good watches as returns from the August pause, but this got very good. Red Bull being unexpectedly poor in qualy, even if Verstappen did very well to get a P5 out of that, and a genuine battle for the lead.

Sainz deserved it with some smart work in using Norris as a Mercedes barrier that got Russell to burn up his tyres even before he made that massive error at the end. Was a bit meh until the Sargant safety car and for a while the main excitement was everyone getting to overtake a Red Bull for the first time this year, but after the Ocon VSC, some good stuff.

Can't believe I'm saying this about Singapore but for me the best race of the season, even if only for the race at the front for the final 10 or so laps. Just shows how good this season could have been withour Red Bull dominating.

Was very impressed by Sainz tactics to back off a bit to help Norris (and therefore help himself). Was very clever but also a very calculated risk. Without doing that I'm convinced the Mercs would have flown by Norris, then him.

It does make me wonder even more who the future World Champions are. Norris impresses me more and more but despite Leclerc seemingly being the Ferrari #1 I actually think Sainz has the nous to do it. I'm not sure Leclerc would have played the race as cleverly as Sainz did?

[charlierc]

19 hours ago, DareToDibble said:

Can't believe I'm saying this about Singapore but for me the best race of the season, even if only for the race at the front for the final 10 or so laps. Just shows how good this season could have been withour Red Bull dominating.

Was very impressed by Sainz tactics to back off a bit to help Norris (and therefore help himself). Was very clever but also a very calculated risk. Without doing that I'm convinced the Mercs would have flown by Norris, then him.

It does make me wonder even more who the future World Champions are. Norris impresses me more and more but despite Leclerc seemingly being the Ferrari #1 I actually think Sainz has the nous to do it. I'm not sure Leclerc would have played the race as cleverly as Sainz did?

We've been saying for most of the year that without Red Bull, there'd actually be a much closer fight. I'm not sure I expected that close, and tbf Red Bull could've been in with a shot at a podium had the safety car not gone against their counter-strategy and saw both Max and Checo sink like stones on the SC restart.

If it was one rather than two Mercedes, I think they might well have broken through Norris and duly got Sainz. As it was I think Russell got distracted trying to both overtake Norris and hold off Lewis, and ended up paying the price with such a small mistake that totally f**ked the race up for him. I think it's the most beat up I've seen a driver this season with how angry he was at himself for blowing it on the final lap.

[charlierc]

Well, at least we had the fun of Singapore. Verstappen just back to being on it and dominating as per, and good for him I guess.

It's genuinely bizarre to have seen the other side of the garage and Perez marking the day Red Bull reclaimed their Constructor's Championship title with one of his worst performances in a 12 year F1 career. Literally the only other one to have been as bad was Logan Sargeant, who's a rookie.

Lewis v Russell also got a bit frosty throughout. Can imagine those who were there when Hamilton & Rosberg were in full-on fights in 2014-16 are getting flashbacks. Though difficult to know which was moodier out of those two or Alpine's Gasly being genuinely furious at being told to scooch aside for his team-mate on the last lap.

[DareToDibble]

4 hours ago, charlierc said:

Well, at least we had the fun of Singapore. Verstappen just back to being on it and dominating as per, and good for him I guess.

It's genuinely bizarre to have seen the other side of the garage and Perez marking the day Red Bull reclaimed their Constructor's Championship title with one of his worst performances in a 12 year F1 career. Literally the only other one to have been as bad was Logan Sargeant, who's a rookie.

Lewis v Russell also got a bit frosty throughout. Can imagine those who were there when Hamilton & Rosberg were in full-on fights in 2014-16 are getting flashbacks. Though difficult to know which was moodier out of those two or Alpine's Gasly being genuinely furious at being told to scooch aside for his team-mate on the last lap.

I think we all knew Singapore was an anomaly when it came to Red Bull. Fair play to them and Max for picking up their dominance where they left off before Singapore.

I would be amazed if Red Bull don't try to find a way to swap Perez and Ricciardo for next season. Trying to be Max's teammate will always be the near impossible job but (as much as I like him) it's been more and more obvious recently how much it's getting to Checo. Swapping them is probably best for both at this point.

I actually missed the last 5-10 laps as I had to go out so didn't hear radio messages etc which I assume you're referring to? Tricky for Mercedes as they have the greatest ever driver teamed with an incredible younger driver, not surprised they're not sure who to back in these situations. 

[charlierc]

17 hours ago, DareToDibble said:

I think we all knew Singapore was an anomaly when it came to Red Bull. Fair play to them and Max for picking up their dominance where they left off before Singapore.

I would be amazed if Red Bull don't try to find a way to swap Perez and Ricciardo for next season. Trying to be Max's teammate will always be the near impossible job but (as much as I like him) it's been more and more obvious recently how much it's getting to Checo. Swapping them is probably best for both at this point.

I actually missed the last 5-10 laps as I had to go out so didn't hear radio messages etc which I assume you're referring to? Tricky for Mercedes as they have the greatest ever driver teamed with an incredible younger driver, not surprised they're not sure who to back in these situations. 

Red Bull have been saying consistently since the summer break that they intend to keep Checo for next year, and obviously it's not a call you make on just Suzuka yesterday, but it seems as though since crashing in Monaco qualifying and then failing to make Q3 for the following 4 races has given him the nerves. If he has stinkers again in Qatar and at COTA in the next 2 rounds, the noise is only going to get louder.

Alpine's radio drama was not broadcast but Gasly was genuinely angry in clips that duly emerged on Twitter and from F1 themselves. Mercedes was, but seems like there's was caused by Russell on a strategy that didn't work thinking Suzuka would be like Singapore and they could play with DRS. Hamilton & Russell were also seen ignoring each other in parc ferme. Could hint that things may get spicy if they get back to their 2014-16 peak of being the dominant force.

[charlierc]

Well, Verstappen winning the title, not a surprise. Doing so in a sprint that he did not win, perhaps more of a surprise. Plus the fact the title was crowned by Perez crashing out in a collision with Ocon and Hulkenberg, which was one of those things where it wasn't his fault but it's a question as to why he's battling over P8 with an Alpine and a Haas in that dominant monster to begin with. 

McLaren winning the sprint and indeed Piastri maintaining a 2 second gap on Verstappen hints they're looking remarkable. From being the outright slowest in race one to now being genuinely front of the rest of the pack and able to give RB headaches. Red Bull must be pleased for the full Qatar race that both Norris and Piastri struggled with track limits.

[charlierc]

Can't say it's a surprise a Red Bull-dominated year is making it hard to get that excited. Least Alonso v Perez yesterday was a great run to the end.

[charlierc]

4 hours ago, Barry Fish said:

2024 doesn't seem like its going to be much different.  Nature of the sport.

Well we've had that before right? Whether it was Williams and McLaren's dominant spells in the 80s/90s, to Schumi-era Ferrari in the early 2000's, the Vettel-era Red Bull in the early 2010s and then Mercedes in the rest of the 2010s. It's a sport that has plenty of dominant periods in its history, even if Max Max Super Max is absolutely demolishing the competition right now in a way further ahead.

I guess we'll see if anyone finds something in their '24 package. McLaren could be the likeliest given they've shown some pretty sensational form since their Singapore upgrade came in, plus Merc & Ferrari have the talent if perhaps not the execution.

I'm intrigued by the upcoming Vegas GP, mind. A likely below 5 degrees C air temp forecast must be one of the coldest races seen in years.

[charlierc]

On 11/7/2023 at 4:05 PM, Barry Fish said:

I would imagine everyone will get closer but do you really see the Bulls not at least having at the very least having a 200 / 300 advantage ? 

I don't see the Bulls winning it all next year like this year but I find it very difficult to see anyone outside of the Bulls winning the title.

Praying I am wrong.  I want to see Max challenged.

I think this is about getting closer, similar to the Mercedes or Ferrari domination in years gone by. In 2014-16, Mercedes were just a class apart. They were reeled in a bit in 2017/18, then got further away in 2019/20, only for 2021 to hit the jackpot for a close fight.

It'll be an incremental place. Red Bull unquestionably have an advantage as they understand the ground effect work plus a phenomenal driver in Max, but they can't win from now until the end of the sport.

Naturally RB will be favourites for '24 unless they really take their eye off the ball or unless one of Merc/Ferrari/McLaren/maybe Aston Martin create their own monster over the winter. Guess we'll see. At the very least the hope it being a closer championship is more interesting given this season's basically been over since Monaco.

On 11/7/2023 at 4:05 PM, Barry Fish said:

It's not going down with the locals 😛 

Well I've heard about the risk of hotel worker strikes for the weekend of the race. Which wouldn't be a good start, to say nothing of the other things they've been up to that have created an unhappy vibe on the ground.

[charlierc]

On 11/7/2023 at 4:05 PM, Barry Fish said:

It's not going down with the locals 😛 

Judging by how well FP1 went on Thursday with a loose water valve destroying 2 cars, FP2 starting at 2:30am thanks to delays, fans being kicked out before the delayed FP2 started and the sense of a shark being jumped, it didn't exactly have a smooth launch.

Even if qualy seemed a degree more sensible.

[charlierc]

Vegas actually looked quite good as a first race tbf. I'm not as enthusiastic as some saying best of '23 (for me, Singapore and Zandvoort were slightly better but Vegas is still top 3) but it had more overtakes than I expected, a genuine fight for the lead, incidents and it got better as the track became grippier. I'll reserve judgement if it fully works after 2/3 more visits, mind.

Meanwhile...

Lewis has denied this, but I was surprised Horner felt confident enough to pipe up again.

Certainly, Lewis has already experience of being in a team where both drivers wanna be number one like Alonso 2007, Button 2010-12 or Rosberg 2014-16, and I doubt either he or Max would want to be partners. Plus in any case RB look set - Max has a deal to 2028, while Perez has his deal for next year and they have two capable enough at Alpha Tauri if they wish to change for 2025.

[charlierc]

9 minutes ago, Barry Fish said:

Its an open secret that drivers, teams and agents pretty much constantly talk about this stuff.  I have zero doubts even Max had conversations from time to time.  You have to keep your doors very wide and very open in F1.  No doubt Lewis was talking to other teams in the summer.  Horner being his usual knob self 🙂 

Horner himself has said this tbf. I believe that around the time of Red Bull's first dominant patch in the early 2010s that both Alonso & Hamilton queried about jumping on board, while in the (very good and very watchable) Brawn GP doc, he said Button asked for a seat for 2009 when Honda pulled out. So yeah, this kind of horse-trading likely goes down all the time in a sport that almost has people thriving on silly season gossip.

I believe at one point this year LH was linked with Ferrari tbf. Plus I guess people are hoping for something more dramatic than this year, given pretty much everyone's staying put for '24. It's not quite that mental week last year of Vettel's retirement, Alonso eagerly taking his vacated Aston Martin seat and Alpine trying to promote Piastri only to be told by Oscar that he was going elsewhere.

[charlierc]

Well... we can only hope that Mercedes, Ferrari, McLaren or whomever turn up in 2024 with a car slightly closer to Red Bull than leaving the door open for Max to win race after race after race.

Even RB themselves thought they'd get challenged more than they did tbf.

[squirrelarmy]

Obviously haven’t been watching the dreary entertainment show the last couple of years but I have just seen a news headline that has got my attention. 
 

How likely is it that Liberty Media will break off from the FIA? From what I can gather, Liberty Media aren’t happy with having to obey sporting regulations.

If they do part with FIA what happens next? I would certainly expect the FIA to have a top Formula racing series as their pinnacle of sport. I can definitely see the manufacturer based teams wanting to stick with a FIA sanctioned series as well. 
 

Let the Americans and the fizzy pop brands have their entertainment show and the real racers can take the sport back to its previous level of integrity. 

[charlierc]

6 hours ago, squirrelarmy said:

Let the Americans and the fizzy pop brands have their entertainment show and the real racers can take the sport back to its previous level of integrity. 

Eh? There's always been a degree of behind-the-scenes pantomime to F1. Indianapolis 2005, the McLaren/Ferrari spy stuff in 2007, teams trying to break away from F1 and the FIA in 2009, Crashgate, even going back to the assorted chicanes and antics that lead to Bernie getting his power in the late 70s/early 80s.

It isn't even new tbf that the FIA and F1 have arguments. The recent Brawn documentary had this where in 2009, there was a genuine break threat to the point where the F1 teams had been planning their own calendar.

I think this is just part of the likely drawn-out negotiations for the upcoming renewal of the Concorde Agreement that allows F1 to operate, which is up at the end of 2025 and whispers are that the FIA want more money from F1.

Certainly, seeing the FIA manage to get F1's management and all 10 teams saying the FIA are full of bollocks and the FIA having to sheepishly retract their investigation into the Wolffs that may have been based on one flimsy article in a magazine with a history of bad content has been quite the week. More eventful than I thought given F1 finished the season two weeks ago.

[DareToDibble]

Hamilton to Ferrari! 😮 

 

[Crazyfool01]

Crumbs 

 

[charlierc]

I'm amused that the single biggest transfer rumour on football transfer deadline day is actually in F1 instead.

Given Hamilton signed a contract extension last summer and seemed happy to stick with Merc for 2024/25, maybe even talking up the idea of retiring at Mercedes, this is a very unexpected twist indeed.

[Ozanne]

I’m shocked, something must’ve gone on behind the scenes at Mercedes. It hasn’t seemed quite right since 2021. 

[DareToDibble]

1 hour ago, charlierc said:

I'm amused that the single biggest transfer rumour on football transfer deadline day is actually in F1 instead.

Given Hamilton signed a contract extension last summer and seemed happy to stick with Merc for 2024/25, maybe even talking up the idea of retiring at Mercedes, this is a very unexpected twist indeed.

I think this Ferrari deal is for after his Merc deal right? 

I’m sure he’s spoken in the past about how driving Ferrari was a childhood dream.

[charlierc]

1 hour ago, DareToDibble said:

I think this Ferrari deal is for after his Merc deal right? 

I’m sure he’s spoken in the past about how driving Ferrari was a childhood dream.

One Italian paper had really gone over the top and said he could even move to Ferrari for this season that's just about to start, though that seems to be an outlier. But in the increasingly likely scenario this is happening, it would be that Hamilton stays for 2024 but then moves to Maranello with Ferrari buying out his 2025 contract.

[charlierc]

2 hours ago, Ozanne said:

I’m shocked, something must’ve gone on behind the scenes at Mercedes. It hasn’t seemed quite right since 2021. 

There's a lot of layers going on here. Hamilton has said in the past he wants to drive for Ferrari and has apparently become friends with the guy who ultimately owns Ferrari, so that's one iteration. Equally, there was a moment last season when Hamilton said Mercedes didn't listen to him when he said he wasn't happy with their 2022 car design and initially entered 2023 with an evolution of the same design.

Could also cause quite the rush. Half the grid is out of contract at the end of 2024 and a seat for a race-winning team is now open, so I can imagine a lot of drivers will be hoping they can get Toto's seal of approval.