Formula 1

[charlierc]

On 11/3/2022 at 8:56 AM, Barry Fish said:

No one can see the future so I think you have to get comfortable with the decisions you make at the time and review if they where right based on what you knew.

Reality was Max was being favoured and he felt his only chance of winning a world championship was to try his hand with another team with the resources to win.

Not sure that assessment was all that wrong.  It didn't work out but his reasons for moving on where real.

I think the idea was right tbf - Ricciardo felt like it was time to move on from Red Bull and wanted to be somebody's number 1 driver, Renault wanted a big statement driver to prove they were serious about progressing and there was a question at that time as to whether it was a good idea for Red Bull to ditch Renault for Honda ahead of the 2019 season.

As it was, however, the limitation was that Renault had about half of Red Bull or Mercedes budget in the pre-cap era and a car that played better with tracks like Montreal and Monza. Even then, however, I think Ricciardo was one of the best drivers in 2020 and might have been better in retrospect staying there rather than moving to a McLaren team he, for one reason or another, just hasn't got his head around. Even if Alpine, like Renault before them, are really good at odd race management or (judging by Alonso this year) mid-race engine failures.

[Ozanne]

This guy is more loved in Brazil than his home country and in the sport he competes. 

[squirrelarmy]

9 hours ago, Ozanne said:

This guy is more loved in Brazil than his home country and in the sport he competes. 

Which does make sense. He debuted in a McLaren which has great history with Senna as a driver, Hamilton wears a yellow helmet partly as a tribute to Senna and he also won his first title in Brazil in the closing laps. 
 

Without a decent recognised Brazilian name in the sport you can see why they follow him. 

[charlierc]

I'm impressed at the contrast tbf. Still seen the footage of 2008 when he won his first title with a last lap overtake in the Brazilian Grand Prix, in the process denying a Brazilian who literally grew up in the part of Sao Paolo that surrounds the track the title in what was Felipe Massa's best shot at the damn thing.

I thought that wouldn't help win friends over there but last year the Brazil crowd just looked so stoked he'd won plus he's obviously got great memories and affection for the nation and he seems extremely grateful for such recognition. So fair play all round.

[Crazyfool01]

magnussen poll ? 

Edited November 11, 2022 by Crazyfool01

[DareToDibble]

Great to have it mixed up, shame for Haas it’s a sprint weekend, be shocked if they’re in the top 10 for the actual race. 
 

Ferrari showing their incompetence once again. Only difference is this time they also took Perez down with them 🤦🏻‍♂️

[Ozanne]

It’s such odd that a driver can crash out yet still keep their position in qualifying. Russel should lose his Q3 time for causing a red flag.

I feel for KMag, he’s going to learn what happens when you come up against MV. 

[charlierc]

I missed qualifying last night as I was seeing Biffy Clyro and it sounds like a missed a choice session. Even on the brief highlights clip F1 put on YouTube, the end of Q1 looked like absolute madness to the point where at point, Latifi was P1. Nuff said for how ridiculous that looks.

My friend who I was with seemed genuinely amazed to see the headline "Kevin Magnussen on pole", not least for a team that is 8th in the current Constructor's Championship, scored zero points last year, and where pole came for a driver who was only re-drafted into F1 at the last minute and only grabbed one points finish in 2020. Good on them though.

[charlierc]

2 hours ago, Ozanne said:

It’s such odd that a driver can crash out yet still keep their position in qualifying. Russel should lose his Q3 time for causing a red flag.

I feel for KMag, he’s going to learn what happens when you come up against MV. 

In fairness, IndyCar has a rule where causing a red flag gets you chucked out of qualifying and there's quite a lot of people who seem to think this is a rule F1 should also adopt. So I can see that, particularly as Russell's crash was the full stop given that the rain duly came in the red flag period and meant nobody could go faster.

I'm not sure what a success looks like for Haas in this one in all fairness. P1 in a car whose teammate qualified P20 is a wild sentence to write down, but given Haas have managed just one points finish with either Magnussen or Schumacher since they got back-to-back double points finishes in Silverstone and Austria in July, I will be genuinely amazed if at the end of today's sprint (let alone the full race) KMag beats Verstappen to the line.

[Ozanne]

16 minutes ago, charlierc said:

In fairness, IndyCar has a rule where causing a red flag gets you chucked out of qualifying and there's quite a lot of people who seem to think this is a rule F1 should also adopt. So I can see that, particularly as Russell's crash was the full stop given that the rain duly came in the red flag period and meant nobody could go faster.

I'm not sure what a success looks like for Haas in this one in all fairness. P1 in a car whose teammate qualified P20 is a wild sentence to write down, but given Haas have managed just one points finish with either Magnussen or Schumacher since they got back-to-back double points finishes in Silverstone and Austria in July, I will be genuinely amazed if at the end of today's sprint (let alone the full race) KMag beats Verstappen to the line.

I don’t think Russell should’ve been kicked out of qualifying just had his time from Q3 taken away and punished for effectively ending the session.

KMag won’t even make it to the 2nd corner ahead of MV.

[Ozanne]

Called it. 

[charlierc]

34 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

Called it. 

Not that immediate tbf - he lasted two laps in the lead, which is more than I thought he would. Haas' race is arguably to be best of the rest though, which given Norris got past him and Vettel wasn't too far behind is a tricksy one.

Guessing Russell having genuine pace to challenge Verstappen and pass him was less expected. And this even before the wing damage following his contact with Sainz, which in a full race clearly would've been more of a problem.

Also, Alpine... just, what the fuck?

[Ozanne]

8 minutes ago, charlierc said:

Not that immediate tbf - he lasted two laps in the lead, which is more than I thought he would. Haas' race is arguably to be best of the rest though, which given Norris got past him and Vettel wasn't too far behind is a tricksy one.

Guessing Russell having genuine pace to challenge Verstappen and pass him was less expected. And this even before the wing damage following his contact with Sainz, which in a full race clearly would've been more of a problem.

Also, Alpine... just, what the fuck?

Yeah that’s fair. I thought the best ever would be able to beat a Haas driver. No luck today for MV. 

[charlierc]

14 hours ago, Barry Fish said:

Merc looks mighty 😄 

Over the moon for Russell...  So hope Lewis doesn't get a penalty for the starting grid just so we get a show!  

Hamilton, Ricciardo and Zhou have avoided penalties for not lining up in their starting positions properly, which has been blamed on the starting boxes being smaller at Interlagos compared to other tracks. So there's that. Apparently Sky think Hamilton disadvantaged himself if anything, which is an achievement.

Quite something tbf that we thought Mercedes' best chance of a win had gone after COTA, only for them to be even closer without quite being able to top Verstappen in Mexico, and now they have a front row lockout in Brazil.

[charlierc]

13 hours ago, Ozanne said:

Yeah that’s fair. I thought the best ever would be able to beat a Haas driver. No luck today for MV. 

Eh. He can't win them all. And in fairness Verstappen did beat the Haas, as did 6 others.

Perhaps the bigger story is Mercedes being on Red Bull's pace at a track they didn't think they would be, and with both Red Bulls reporting the tyres going off sooner than Russell and Hamilton did if at all. So if nothing else, could be interesting to see how this plays out for the full distance race today.

[Ozanne]

11 minutes ago, charlierc said:

Eh. He can't win them all. And in fairness Verstappen did beat the Haas, as did 6 others.

Perhaps the bigger story is Mercedes being on Red Bull's pace at a track they didn't think they would be, and with both Red Bulls reporting the tyres going off sooner than Russell and Hamilton did if at all. So if nothing else, could be interesting to see how this plays out for the full distance race today.

I thought Merc were going to be good here as the altitude benefits their car?

Either way it’s a great result for the team and hopefully Lewis can get a great start in the race.

I still dislike Sprint races 😆

[charlierc]

13 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

I thought Merc were going to be good here as the altitude benefits their car?

Either way it’s a great result for the team and hopefully Lewis can get a great start in the race.

I still dislike Sprint races 😆

Tbf it was a decent sprint race but did feel like it should carry on. Not to mention strange logic puzzles like this stat...

As for the Merc debate, they do seem to be taking steps in fairness to reduce the deficit. At some races in the early part of this year they were getting cars knocked out in Q2 and in one case Q1 on merit, but they do now seem to be at least at a similar level to Ferrari. But for whatever reason I'd heard people thinking Brazil might not suit the package.

What we have seen, mind, is them pushing Red Bull closer on 3 different track styles at 3 different altitudes. But for the full race, I guess we'll have to see if Verstappen chews through his tyres as quickly and if indeed they might have made a set-up error that gives it harsher tyre wear.

[Ozanne]

17 minutes ago, charlierc said:

Tbf it was a decent sprint race but did feel like it should carry on. Not to mention strange logic puzzles like this stat...

As for the Merc debate, they do seem to be taking steps in fairness to reduce the deficit. At some races in the early part of this year they were getting cars knocked out in Q2 and in one case Q1 on merit, but they do now seem to be at least at a similar level to Ferrari. But for whatever reason I'd heard people thinking Brazil might not suit the package.

What we have seen, mind, is them pushing Red Bull closer on 3 different track styles at 3 different altitudes. But for the full race, I guess we'll have to see if Verstappen chews through his tyres as quickly and if indeed they might have made a set-up error that gives it harsher tyre wear.

I might have got that wrong about Brazil and the Mercs tbf so you are probably right on that. It’s hopefully a good sign for next season that Merc can be right up there again.

[Ozanne]

So Max crashes into Lewis yet again, will they ever penalise him?

[Ozanne]

5 second time penalty to Max so at least there was a penalty.

Russell completely stitched Lewis up on the restart.

[Ozanne]

A Merc 1-2, they are back! It is so good to see them back at the top again. Good for George to get his win.

Hopefully this is a good sign for next season.

[Ozanne]

Max Verstappen refused to give the place back to Perez, after all that Perez has done for him and the team is a complete joke. It shows what a horrible person he is.

[DareToDibble]

Complete dick move by Verstappen, absolutely no difference to him where he finished the race but a massive slap in the face to the teammate who did so much support work for him last and this season.

[charlierc]

The strange thing about this is that it was kinda unnecessary in a way - Perez was on the wrong tyres for the safety car restart leading to him getting bypassed by 3 cars quickly, while Verstappen would likely have got past anyway and would've probably got Alonso had he had one more lap.

But fucking hell, Verstappen's attitude of not giving a shit about his team mate makes him look extremely spoiled, and (depending on one or two rumours I've seen) claiming it was payback for Perez crashing on purpose in Monaco qualifying might cause more headaches for his team if it means the FIA have to get involved.

[charlierc]

Good race in fairness - points finishers seemed to change all the time with overtakes and teams flicking between all their various strategy points, plus the palpable proof Mercedes look to have figured their car out at last with a 1/2 finish. Could be interesting as well if they stick with this for 2023. Russell winning for the first time is also nice to see - should've won in Bahrain when he stood in for Hamilton 2 years ago, and is on course to beat LH44 in the standings.

Saying that, I think Hamilton could well have won that race had he not had his contact with Verstappen as he had to put work in to overtake 5/6 cars to get up to GR, although I add I thought he'd got a puncture or bigger damage from that contact. Also curious some seemed to think that could've been a Hamilton penalty, hence why I thought it might just be deemed a racing incident. Sod's law though that Verstappen has been relatively clean so far in 2022, and he has a big crash not with Leclerc or Sainz (or his team-mate) but with Hamilton. It just had to be.

Also, did the race director just forget Yuki Tsunoda existed? The unlap message was only for Albon and Latifi, meaning Tsunoda wasn't able to un-lap himself and ended up being up with the top five on the restart.