Formula 1

[Ozanne]

7 minutes ago, DareToDibble said:

Could be huge then. Will the repercussions be as big as stripping titles or a huge fine? 

I would guess it's probably going to come down to some kind of technicality about if a certain thing was inside or outside the budget cap (I might be wrong but I think some types of spend are allowed outside of the cap?)

It could be huge but I doubt the FIA will do much, it’ll probably be a fine. I don’t know what the rules say they should do tbf.

I think it also creates issues for this year and potentially being over budget for this year too. Plus Merc had to make 40 people redundant to stay within the cost cap yet RB can just breach the rules. 

[Ozanne]

Surely if a team has cheated last year and were awarded the title then they must be stripped of that title?

[charlierc]

22 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

It could be huge but I doubt the FIA will do much, it’ll probably be a fine. I don’t know what the rules say they should do tbf.

I think it also creates issues for this year and potentially being over budget for this year too. Plus Merc had to make 40 people redundant to stay within the cost cap yet RB can just breach the rules. 

I don't think the FIA has a set template for what the rule breaches are. This is kind of unknown territory to some degree, given this is the first stress test of this situation, the rules on what to do for a breach seem fuzzier than they perhaps should have been when the idea of a cost cap was introduced and there's just a whole shitload of exemptions that may or may not be tied up in what is in line with the cap. 

Until the FIA makes such disclosures public of what it is they are investigating, we don't really have as much to go on as we think, just increasingly bitchy comments from all team principals when asked about it by the media. This may be one to wait on until we get something official, but obviously that's not enough for our hyperactive news culture.

[Ozanne]

2 minutes ago, charlierc said:

I don't think the FIA has a set template for what the rule breaches are. This is kind of unknown territory to some degree, given this is the first stress test of this situation, the rules on what to do for a breach seem fuzzier than they perhaps should have been when the idea of a cost cap was introduced and there's just a whole shitload of exemptions that may or may not be tied up in what is in line with the cap. 

Until the FIA makes such disclosures public of what it is they are investigating, we don't really have as much to go on as we think, just increasingly bitchy comments from all team principals when asked about it by the media. This may be one to wait on until we get something official, but obviously that's not enough for our hyperactive news culture.

It must be in their rules of what types of punishments are available?

No doubt it’ll go on and on though. 

[Ozanne]

Gutted that Hamilton didn’t get poll but still a very good result for him. Fun session all in all. 

[Crazyfool01]

Unlucky max … what a shame blinding lap .. should still win this he race though 

[Ozanne]

We got to see the real Max Verstappen at the end there with the nastiness towards his team.

[Ozanne]

Well this could get interesting…

[DareToDibble]

2 hours ago, Ozanne said:

Well this could get interesting…

Interesting stuff. Until we know the full extent of what's happened we'll never even be able to guess what's going to happen to them. My best guess is that they wouldn't change the result of previous seasons so will give them a reduction of cost cap and reduced testing time. 

On todays quali, was good to see it so open. Pole seemed to change on every lap. And I had a tenner on Leclerc being on pole so was over the moon that Red Bull called Max in 😄 

Could be a great race tomorrow. Wouldn't be shocked to see Lewis leading after the first corner.

[Ozanne]

1 minute ago, DareToDibble said:

Interesting stuff. Until we know the full extent of what's happened we'll never even be able to guess what's going to happen to them. My best guess is that they wouldn't change the result of previous seasons so will give them a reduction of cost cap and reduced testing time. 

On todays quali, was good to see it so open. Pole seemed to change on every lap. And I had a tenner on Leclerc being on pole so was over the moon that Red Bull called Max in 😄 

Could be a great race tomorrow. Wouldn't be shocked to see Lewis leading after the first corner.

Nice going on the winnings!

As you say the punishment will depend on how much RB have overspent, I can’t see them doing anything with the WC from last year although it would give the FIA an easy out from the debacle of 2021. 

[CurlyPutz]

Cracking quali. Thought the old man had for a moment there. Was shocked to see how much faster than everyone Lewis was first laps out on slicks in Q3. Roll on the race, could be interesting but expect max and redbull to be untouchable again. 

[DareToDibble]

I think this might be one race where Max won’t charge through the field. It’s not easy to overtake. Leclerc has to be favourite but something is telling me Lewis will win it.

[squirrelarmy]

Making a rare appearance in this thread due to the breaking news. 
 

I won’t be surprised if Red Bull did break the cost cap significantly and they will only get the bare minimum of punishment. It is only going to be slap on the wrist without affecting any awarded titles. 

More evidence that this is no longer a sport and purely just an entertainment show. Seems like the stewarding decisions have been just as crazy as always. 
 

@Barry Fish that race where it was Mansell vs Senna was 1992 and watching that was the reason I got hooked on the sport. F1 won’t ever peak like that again. 

Edited October 2, 2022 by squirrelarmy

[charlierc]

17 hours ago, Ozanne said:

We got to see the real Max Verstappen at the end there with the nastiness towards his team.

Eh. Name me a driver that hasn't slagged off the team when they make a mistake, and you can guess the annoyance when he was on for a great lap only to be told to stop due to an issue out of his control. 

Saying that, imagine Max at Ferrari. Leclerc and Sainz have spent most of this season getting annoyed by them, but not to that level.

[charlierc]

13 hours ago, DareToDibble said:

Interesting stuff. Until we know the full extent of what's happened we'll never even be able to guess what's going to happen to them. My best guess is that they wouldn't change the result of previous seasons so will give them a reduction of cost cap and reduced testing time. 

On todays quali, was good to see it so open. Pole seemed to change on every lap. And I had a tenner on Leclerc being on pole so was over the moon that Red Bull called Max in 😄 

Could be a great race tomorrow. Wouldn't be shocked to see Lewis leading after the first corner.

At the very least, what I had written as "fuzzy" on my last entry is more leeway for situational-dependent cases. It could range from just a minor accounting breach to some more significant financial overspend, so if nothing else, at least there are options depending on the severity of the breach in question.

Tbf I'm aware the court of public opinion has already split as per the familiar fault lines, ranging from "Just another attack on Red Bull" to "They totally broke the cap". I'm not trying to downplay it but taking a guilty until proven innocent line isn't going to help, let alone even before the FIA pipe up as we're in the dark until there's official comment. Which, who would be surprised if we don't hear anything on Wednesday as some previously speculated?

As for the race, it's Singapore so I wouldn't be surprised if there's a first lap safety car. Again.

[Crazyfool01]

2 minutes ago, Barry Fish said:

I love the sport so on issues like this I try not to be one sided about it.  

Anyone who broke the cost cap should have the book thrown at them.

I really can't see them taking a title off Max regardless.  I think that would be unpalatable to most people even thought there is a strong case for it.   I could see serious issues for Red Bull (if its proven).  Exclusion from the constructors championship, previous year, this year and next, reduced wind tunnel time, a lower cap for them for the following years and so on.

Otherwise everyone will just break the cap in the future has the penalty for doing so is much less than the potential benefit.

Given how rattled Red Bull are this weekend - it seems likely they are in trouble.

Yeah I agree and a nicely balanced post 

[squirrelarmy]

The whole point of the cost cap was to stop mega corporations dominating the sport and pouring bottomless amounts of cash into developing unbeatable cars. 
 

Breaking that fundamental rule should see the team doing so excluded from the sport. 
 

Not going to happen though in this case. 

[Crazyfool01]

1 minute ago, squirrelarmy said:

The whole point of the cost cap was to stop mega corporations dominating the sport and pouring bottomless amounts of cash into developing unbeatable cars. 
 

Breaking that fundamental rule should see the team doing so excluded from the sport. 
 

Not going to happen though in this case. 

It wouldn’t happen if it was merc or Ferrari either ….

[squirrelarmy]

8 minutes ago, Crazyfool01 said:

It wouldn’t happen if it was merc or Ferrari either ….

McLaren were just as big and influential as Merc & Ferrari in 2007 and they were dsq from the championship and fined.
 

I’d expect a similar punishment here if the same people were still in charge at the top of the sport.
 

 

[squirrelarmy]

33 minutes ago, Barry Fish said:

I would expect it and I just don't see why we would think it wouldn't happen.

The FIA isn't the best organisation but on huge things like this they tend to come down heavy.

It’s the timing of the breach as well. Right before a massive regulation change. All that extra money and time that they shouldn’t have spent developing the car sets them up to have a huge advantage over the rest of the field for the next few seasons. 

Anyway. I’m already done with the show and I’m not going to let it wind me up so I’m out of this thread again.

[Ozanne]

The rumour is that RB will get a 7.5m fine and limitation on wind tunnel time. If that’s the case the budget cap is dead in the water and every team will just decide to go over the budget. It will be exactly how I imagined it will go. 

[charlierc]

Talking of things that have been allowed to go on a bit long...

Surely if there was a lot of medical concern about whether or not it was acceptable for an F1 racing driver to have a nose stud, this should've been brought up when he first considered getting one. As it is, if the alternative is infection and a blood/pus build-up - as he himself said in an interview about this issue when he tried to have it removed a few weeks ago - that's surely less safe.

[charlierc]

24 minutes ago, Barry Fish said:

F1 eating itself again...  Worried about being able to get race safely going despite having full wets available and billions of pounds spent in car development.  Three hour clock is ticking so fans who have spent a fortune may not see a full race.

I think Pirelli need to do better at their wet tyres. It doesn't help that it was a properly massive storm that flooded the pit straight and grand-stands, and I appreciate that safety procedures have to been tightened up, but given the chaos that was Spa last year, it's good to know nothing has been learned.

Saying that, the 3 hour clock has apparently shifted back with the race delay, so that might ease one concern.

[Ozanne]

9 minutes ago, charlierc said:

Talking of things that have been allowed to go on a bit long...

Surely if there was a lot of medical concern about whether or not it was acceptable for an F1 racing driver to have a nose stud, this should've been brought up when he first considered getting one. As it is, if the alternative is infection and a blood/pus build-up - as he himself said in an interview about this issue when he tried to have it removed a few weeks ago - that's surely less safe.

 

Hehe

[DareToDibble]

Yeah it’s a bit mad they’ve waited this long. I understand safety is first priority but this track is good to race on now with Inters/Wet.

One red flag means we’re pretty much guaranteed not to get full race distance.