Metallica and the lack of metal

[russycarps]

im sick of hearing about rosklide quite frankly it bares no relation on the subject concerned

[abu hamster]

im sick of hearing about rosklide quite frankly it bares no relation on the subject concerned, there have been other more deadly incidents sadly with other genres of music involved since then so if thats how hes judging crowd safety then surly he must pull all the dance acts because of what happened at the Berlin love parade etc as well......im not advocating that im just using it as an example of why it isnt just a `metal` thing to have things go wrong tragically with a large crowd, it could happen with any genre with any kind of music if the organizers do not get the crowd situation handled well. Luckly glasto having had some of the biggest crowds around for years now are very much used to this.

Or though it wasn't even a metal band or even id say a particularly heavy band involved at rosklide anyway....it was sodding pearl jam since when were they a metal band???? and as anyone who knows anything about the incident knows it wasn't the fault of the type of music being played it was the fact that people fell over and the crowd left them there(rather then picking them up as always happens at a metal show) and crowd surfers fell on top of them........contributing factor was a wet and slippery ground.

So if anything the fault was indifference of the crowd to people being on the ground and the crowdsurfers coming over the top ....now you wouldnt get people acting that way at a metal gig and you dont only get crowdsurfers at metal shows (I saw plenty of them during sets last year at glasto itself esp during the `big` acts like dizzee rascal etc )

so finally how does this relate to metal? answer? it doesnt! so can we please shut up about rosklide now. If eavis has booked metallica then even hes softened his stance on it as time has passed so why are people here still going on like it happened yesterday and it was the direct result of heavy metal?

[dan05delaney]

It's probably worth reading the BBC article posted about why Glastonbury doesn't like booking heavy acts. I'll give you a clue, it's because of Rokskilde.

[dan05delaney]

I completely agree why ME would be concerned about it. The problem i find is they can break out anywhere and i certainly wouldn't want to be anywhere near one. My hair might get messed up Why not have a designated area for anyone that wishes to get involved. Isn't there a golden circle type space anyway for crowd control? Have it in there.

[frostypaw]

Those old barriers are pretty terrifying. I would hate to be squeezed against them At All

[frostypaw]

and yeah there is a Golden circle for crowd control and I would put money on if Metallica do play you wouldn't find any pits out side of that area

[dan05delaney]

I know it's a bit pedantic but isn't golden circle a term used for the exclusive vip areas? I'm used to these constructs just being called crowd control barriers. No connotations of exclusivity

[CHRLY]

yes but that was a 2002 article I'd love to hear what Eavis thinks now having booked some heavier acts, and how the industy has improved massivly just look and compare Roskilde stage barriers since 2000 and now, same with the pyramid

Roskilde 2000

Its basically scafolding poles to stop people running and from "crushing" causing a problem it was meant to stop

Roskilde now

[thesecretingredientiscrime]

yes but that was a 2002 article I'd love to hear what Eavis thinks now having booked some heavier acts, and how the industy has improved massivly just look and compare Roskilde stage barriers since 2000 and now, same with the pyramid

Roskilde 2000

Its basically scafolding poles to stop people running and from "crushing" causing a problem it was meant to stop

Roskilde now

[Harry3]

Those barriers are fucking horrific who the hell thought they were a good idea?!?!

[CHRLY]

Those barriers are fucking horrific who the hell thought they were a good idea?!?!

[ceegee]

Regarding ME's comments about heavy acts, it's worth remembering that the metal / hard rock scene in the early 00's was dominated by nu-metal acts which, like most genres that reach mainstream popularity, attracted a significant amount of arsehole fans. It was also far more conducive to violent moshing than Metallica's music is - the songs are shorter and more aggressive lyrically. Metallica's music is primarily suited to headbanging and flashing of devilhorns than pit circles. Back when those comments were made, the biggest metal bands were attracting audiences mainly comprised of male 16-25 year olds, who aren't renowned for their sensible decision making. Metallica's main audience are comprised of 30 somethings who would put their back out if they moshed too hard.

Also, the closest equivalent in terms of fanbase last year was Smashing Pumpkins - while there was moshing going on around me, it was all done in a friendly manner, no punches thrown and as soon as someone fell people went out of their way to help them up and stop further people being pushed into their path. No-one got hurt and it was an incredibly happy atmosphere.

The people who go to Glastonbury are, for the most part, some of the friendliest crowds I've met at gigs, they aren't going to suddenly turn in to animalistic arsehats because someone on stage is using a distortion pedal. The closest I've got to feeling unsafe at Glastonbury was during blur's set, not during one of their heavier songs but during Girls and Boys; the reason - a large crowd surge behind me which caused those around me to briefly lose their footing.

In a mosh pit, people expect to be banged into and are prepared mentally and physically for it, crowd surges catch people off guard and this is why they fall. The genre of music has little to do with it, they happen at boybands, dance acts, you name it.

The tragedy at Roskilde was not down to the type of music played, it was down to too many people trying to push forward in a poorly setup area with dangerous underfoot conditions.

Could this happen at Glastonbury - Yes, but I dont think it will be due to someone playing their guitar too loudly. If anything Metallica will probably have a smaller crowd than many recent headliners, making it less likely to happen during their set. Allowing the likes of radiohead to play in the park was a much higher risk to crowd safety (and seems to have been acknowledged as such in hindsight).

[ceegee]

Also, looking at that first Roskilde picture just reminds me of 1980's football terraces - a tragedy waiting to happen

[dan05delaney]

Looking at that first photo really does make me wonder how on earth it took so long for such a tragedy to happen, horrible stuff

[Hello... I'm Johnny Cash]

thats a big misconception, you assume metal fans only like metal........I love metal but I dont want to see `only metal` espcially when im paying 200 quid for a ticket and spending 5 days at a festival. Plenty of metal fans at glasto as seen last year from the big crowd shakiri got, saw quite a few metal band t shirts etc as well people walking around, you`ll be suprised I think. Of course youll be able to tell the diehard metallica fans if they perform as we`ll be the ones down the front going nuts but then I guess that goes for any diehard fans of any acts on the bill.

Edited April 7, 2014 by Hello... I'm Johnny Cash

[eFestivals]

I really want to hear neil's facts

If you care about the subject, care enough to go and find out what has actually happened.

A discussion fuelled by only ignorance and prejudice is no discussion at all.

[mrtourette]

/endthread, what else can you say after that? a position of total common sense spoken (I was part of that `friendly` pit for the pumpkins last year it was exactly as described, just a lot of fun dancing to the classics ) good work ceegee.

[russycarps]

It's understandable why someone like Michael Eavis looked at that and went into complete overkill regarding preventing such a repeat and wanted to completely remove the risk of aggressive or dangerous crowds

[mrtourette]

Which is what people have been saying all along.

"Banning" metal/heavy rock bands removed a 0.1% (or whatever) chance of there being a repeat of the tragedy. Putting the new barrier removed another 0.1% chance. The rest of the crowd management schemes removed another 0.1% chance.

Eliminating risk is what it's all about.

Quite why people, like this crazypenguin fellow, throw a tantrum year after year about it is beyond me.

Crowd safety has to be more important than your favourite band playing glastonbury.

[eFestivals]

As pointed out every time this conversation comes up the tragedy at Roskilde was nothing to do with mosh pits of the type of music being played, more the weather and poor organisation.

that's a prejudiced view, that can easily be shown as wrong.

If it was a traditional orchestra on stage, would the same thing have happened? It's hugely unlikely. So the band plays a part in things.

Would the weather by itself have been enough for the same to happen? Nope.

Would poor organisation (if there was any) have been enough for the same to happen? Nope.

Such things generally happen because of a combination of circumstances, and that was the case at Roskilde. If you remove any single part of the circumstances the chances are that things would have panned out very differently.

One of those circumstances was a band that has a particularly rowdly crowd.

And, it's worth nothing, that none of that "rock crowds look after each other" stuff could save the lives of those who died.

As has also ben pointed out the odd thing is that Pearl Jam and not a heavy rock band at all (they're more like Neil Young than Metallica), they are just a large band with a devoted following who inspire a massive rush to see them

And so you see, the band is extremely relevant!!!

A band that does not inspire that 'rush' creates no deadly crush. And the deadly crushes recorded around the world line-up hugely against the heavier bands.

[mungo57]

I've seen Met a few times, most recent time was the only time I can remember a moshpits breaking out or anything worse than the casual shoving you get from MOST big crowds.

I agree with Michaels concerns because metal fans CAN be dickheads and start moshing and fighting, I hate moshpits, whats wrong with either dancing about normally or just NOT moshing?

Anyway, when James (singer/rhythm guitar) noticed the pit breaking out, he waited til the end of the song and told people to behave and pick people up if they went down and said 'look after each other and have a good time'. Also, PJ famously opened their Reading Festival set with a message about being safe in the crowd before they even played a note. Hopefully Met will echo that and do the same thing at Glasto, which I am sure they will. They LOVE playing, have ALWAYS wanted to do Glasto and I strongly doubt they will encourage anything untoward and would do whatever they could to ensure crowd safety as they love their fans and whoever comes to see them. They will know they are a bit of a left field booking and will play to the crowd and take things as they come.

Edited April 7, 2014 by mungo57

[russycarps]

Well I imagine the argument is that he could have removed the same amount of risk without applying such a heavy-handed approach which denied the festival a genre of music for such a long time. However as I said it's hard to argue with that when safety has been ensured and the festival is probably more commercially successful that it's ever been, so it's hard to suggest that it's lost out as a result of his decision or been missing out on something all these years (especially given the prescence of Downlaod and Soni offering exactly that should annybody want it).

[mrtourette]

that's a prejudiced view, that can easily be shown as wrong.

If it was a traditional orchestra on stage, would the same thing have happened? It's hugely unlikely. So the band plays a part in things.

Would the weather by itself have been enough for the same to happen? Nope.

Would poor organisation (if there was any) have been enough for the same to happen? Nope.

Such things generally happen because of a combination of circumstances, and that was the case at Roskilde. If you remove any single part of the circumstances the chances are that things would have panned out very differently.

One of those circumstances was a band that has a particularly rowdly crowd.

And, it's worth nothing, that none of that "rock crowds look after each other" stuff could save the lives of those who died.

And so you see, the band is extremely relevant!!!

A band that does not inspire that 'rush' creates no deadly crush. And the deadly crushes recorded around the world line-up hugely against the heavier bands.

Edited April 7, 2014 by mrtourette

[mrtourette]

well there are heavy rock bands at the festival every single year anyway, just not (yet) in the pyramid headline slot. It's not like this music is banned from the festival entirely.

Edited April 7, 2014 by mrtourette

[eFestivals]

Of course the band and the particular crowd for that band is very relevant (as I explained, so I don't know why you're suggesting otherwise), the type of music (in this case) not so, examplified by the fact that people tend to blame metal when Pearl Jam aren't in the slightest bit metal (or even heavy rock).

And yet when the deaths are more against a particular type of music more-so than other types of music, the type of music clearly does have relevance.

That doesn't say "all rock/metal bands are a much greater risk", but it does say that "rock/metal bands are a much greater risk".

And because there's no bands around that come with any meaningful "can cause death" label, the only realistic way of avoiding the risk is to avoid the genre.