The Dirty Independence Question

[eFestivals]

PS: I see that Alex now thinks that Liz hates her employer that pays her wages,. and would throw her lot in with a bloke who'd abolish her if he could get away with it.

There's really no limit to how low the guy can go with his made-up bollocks, is there?

If that one doesn't hit home, then nothing will do.

Edited September 9, 2014 by eFestivals

[eFestivals]

Have just been looking at the Schengen criteria, and see that it's obligatory for new EU members and that border states are obliged to implement tough border controls with full customs and passport checks.

Good luck with that one Scotland.

[russycarps]

do these cretins really think this will help the No vote

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-29126386

I see the yes voters in this thread are showing their true colours as well now it looks like they might win. "The enemy" indeed.

[LJS]

do these cretins really think this will help the No vote

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-29126386

I see the yes voters in this thread are showing their true colours as well now it looks like they might win. "The enemy" indeed.

I find this a bit pathetic frankly.

[eFestivals]

Why would this be so hard for them ?

Because the EU might require iScotland to erect a strong border with the UK, because the UK is not part of Schengen.

Yes, it sounds unlikely - but it has been the rule for other EU member states at their own cost and inconvenience, because it is an absolute rule of the EU.

At best it's a difficulty that iScotland will get around in some manner, but no doubt at cost elsewhere. A price will be extracted from iScotland by the EU for the concession.

*IF* they get that concession. They might not.

[eFestivals]

If Scotland became independent and was outside of the EU then surely the CTA has to end ?

I'm not entirely sure on that one. It's probably the most difficult of all.

I'm guessing that rUK would be required to have at least customs checks on the Scottish border at the EU's insistence.

Passport checks are less likely, for all the while rUK is outside of Schengen.

If Scotland became independent and was inside the EU then we would be left with three options ??

• Everyone joins the Schengen area
• Scotland joins Schengen area and the UK keeps opt out and we get the whole of the EUto agree to leave border open between the two of us.
• Scotland joins the CTA and gets the whole of the EU to agree to it.

I can't see the first happening at a time the UK is so anti-Europe. Maybe it could if Labour would be in charge ?

And two and three would have to be firstly agreed and then treaties amended triggering referendums all over the EU including the UK.

The second of those is not possible, because of what CTA and Schengen actually mean.

The choice for iScotland is CTA or Schengen, but never both. rUK will perhaps have to take its own actions dependent on iScotland's choice.

[Wooderson]

How hard is it to get Glastonbury international tickets?

A mare!

[zero000]

15% of Scots believe that MI5 spies are working to prevent Scottish independence:
http://www.buzzfeed.com/jimwaterson/scotland-poll

Pretty interesting; I wouldn't put it past MI5 to be honest. Having said that having Dave, Nick and Ed visit Scotland today, doesn't come across as a masterstroke .

[eFestivals]

15% of Scots believe that MI5 spies are working to prevent Scottish independence:

http://www.buzzfeed.com/jimwaterson/scotland-poll

Pretty interesting; I wouldn't put it past MI5 to be honest. Having said that having Dave, Nick and Ed visit Scotland today, doesn't come across as a masterstroke .

I wouldn't be surprised either, tho as you say it would only prove them as incompetent.

More astonishing tho is that 100% of Scots haven't noticed they're not sovereign after voting themselves indy. I remain completely astounded that there's not a whisper about Salmond's theft of the prize.

[zero000]

In what sense do you mean that they are not sovereign? Is it that they are not entirely independent from the UK?

[eFestivals]

In what sense do you mean that they are not sovereign? Is it that they are not entirely independent from the UK?

The constitution starts of with the grand words "In Scotland the people are sovereign" - like they're getting something different and much better than they get in the UK.

The constitution then goes on to explain to them that there will no checks and balances on politicians, no rights to referendums, and that all power is exercised by the Scottish Parliament.

Which leaves an iScottish citizen with less sovereignty than they had in the UK - cos Westminster has the HoL, and while it's completely shite it's still more of a check on the power of politicians than anything iScotland will have.

From what I've read, every yes voter seemingly believes they're getting something more-sovereign than they get from Westminster.

[Comfy Bean]

You will have no right to operations in English (or Welsh, or N-Irish) hospitals. They cease to be 'your' hospitals, in case you'd not noticed.

Likewise, I suspect I'm not welcome in your hospitals just like I'm not welcome in your Uni's - unless paying a commercial fee to 'socialist' iScotland.

Would suggest you may want to look into the hospital bit. I`ll give you a clue, both our countries already have citizens residing or travelling across the border or abroad who require medical attention. Not only will you be most welcome in our country ( should you get past Millibands armed gaurds ) you will also be welcome to receive any treatment as required. Financial arrangements already in place to cover this as I understand it.

PMSL - and the award for the best joke of the campaign goes to....? Comfy.

In case you've not noticed, there is currently no border in the one country we live within.

After you erect that border and make yourself separate, guess what? You're separate.

What "right" of medical care do UK-ers have around Europe?

Did you not notice at school that some of the kids were better at sums than you?

Thank you for the " award " for best joke. I haven`t won anything for ages. Do I get a certificate ?

When you get a minute you could maybe re-visit this. I`d suggest a starting point would be to " google " the following 4 letters........ e h i c.

There is of course some paperwork to complete but it only takes a few minutes and is free of charge. I`m concerned that you and your loved ones are missing out on any medical attention you may require ( as I mentioned in my first post ). I already pointed out our Governments are already paying for our citizens who are travelling across the border or around Europe.

In my award winning post I also mentioned our citizens who are now residing overseas. It`s a different form to complete but it`s all in there under the 4 letters I suggested. Again, It`s money the Government has already set aside to take care of you and yours should you ever fancy a bit of the expat sunny lifestyle.

I must admit your probably right about my time at school but how many of them won an " award" today

[eFestivals]

e h i c.

When your country is a part of EHIC, get back to me.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Health_Insurance_Card#Participating_countries

Edited September 9, 2014 by eFestivals

[LJS]

I wouldn't recommend discussing the (draft interim) constitution with Neil.

He uniquely has discovered that it is a brazen plot to install Alex Mugabe Salmond as the glorious eternal Lord of all Scotia. All opposition will be outlawed and all citiz..oops sorry vassals Will be required to sport Salmond cut hairstyles.

Funnily enough in spite of its blatant assault on democracy, the no campaign have had little to say about it.

As ever, Neil knows best.

[Comfy Bean]

When your country is a part of EHIC, get back to me.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Health_Insurance_Card#Participating_countries

Hi, I`m back. I already have an EHIC card.

[Stash]

The fact that at a stroke we would be removing the possibility of any Tory or UKIP influenced Government on our citizens is of course another massive bonus.

I thought that there were still conservative MSPs, as well as a conservative and a UKIP MEP from Scotland?

[Comfy Bean]

I thought that there were still conservative MSPs, as well as a conservative and a UKIP MEP from Scotland?

Yes that is right. But I think it is also fair to say that a YES vote, for a generation atleast, would mean removing the prospect of a Tory Govt - which we have just now, or a Government that was being influenced by UKIP which " could " be coming down the road.

The part you have highlighted was only really an after thought at the end of that post. I was mostly wanting to point out that YES would mean the removal of Trident and the bedroom tax.

[LJS]

I thought that there were still conservative MSPs, as well as a conservative and a UKIP MEP from Scotland?

the Conservatives have 15 seats (out of 129 ) in Holyrood with about 15% of the vote. Under our PR lite system they have 3 constituency member & 12 list members..

The accurate claim is that will never again get a Tory government we didn't vote for

I have argues before that there is an opportunity for the Scottish Conservative Party to distance itself from the Post Thatcherite uk party & tap into the undoubted potential conservative vote that exists in Scotland (the Tories polled 31% in Thatcher's first victory) I think realistically it would take a long time (if ever) for the Tories to mount a serious challenge ... but it is not totally inconceivable.

There is one Tory MP & one Tory & 1 Ukip MEP - who I think is there first elected representative in Scotland who got 10.5% of the vote

[Comfy Bean]

I think you have to look to that second debate and the seal clapping following the "admission" that Scotland can use the pound....

Madness

the only visible game changer is Darling saying "of course you can use the pound" and the listeners being too daft to realise the full context.

The context that even Alex's own men say "we don't want to do that, it'll fuck Scotland".

Ah well, Scotland's daftness, Scotland's consequences.

(Yes, I realise they'll be some of my own, but they'll be teeny weeny in comparison).

Just to clarify, are we now saying that the shift in momentum and the dramatic changes in the polls are all down to a line said by Darling during a tv debate and people clapping ?

Is this also why everyone is heading up tomorrow ?

Where is Darling and why is Boris not coming. To think we were laughing at Farage and the Orange Order coming at the weekend. You could not make this up. 24 hours after Gordon announced a "timetable " we are no further forward on what powers he would need a timetable to introduce... not to mention how Gordon has any powers to introduce powers in the first place. People have already voted ffs.

[LJS]

I realise from where you guys darn sarff are sitting the one liner from Darling " Of course you can use the pound" & the reaction to it, may seem a bit bizarre.

Unfortunately (for the no campaign) they had printed and distributed 10's of 1000's of leaflets categorically stating we couldn't use the pound - some of them went on to say we would be forced to use the Euro.

They constantly plugged the "vote yes & lose the pound" line.

So these words from darling exposed the lie at the heart of their campaign. And as with so much else in the no campaign it was a lie they didn't need to tell. If they'd told the truth they might even have had Salmond in more trouble on Currency.

But as with virtually the whole campaign they totally blew it.

Even now after all the trumpeted new powers, it transpires there is virtually nothing new & the 3 UK parties cannot even agree on what these alleged powers should be.

What a bunch of diddies.

Edited September 9, 2014 by LJS

[LJS]

Here's another bloody idiot who says Scotland is likely to get into the EU

Oh but he's only the former president of the European parliament

Edited September 9, 2014 by LJS

[LJS]

Leading energy and defence figure switches to Yes

http://newsnetscotland.com/index.php/scottish-news/9716-leading-energy-and-defence-figure-switches-to-yes

There has been a steady stream of people switching from No to Yes - I can't remember anyone going the other way

Surely there must be someone?

[LJS]

Dammit, i've done what I try hard not to do, and was wrong to say that Scotland had a greater deficit than the UK average for all of the last 5 years. My apologies.

However, Scotland running a deficit greater than the UK average for 19 of the last 25 years is true.

These are from Alex's own (fiddled) GERS numbers.

edit: to bold the years where Scotland's deficit has been lesser than rUK.

I'd appreciate a link to your source, Neil

I can't find this in the labarynth of GERS figures.

[eFestivals]

I wouldn't recommend discussing the (draft interim) constitution with Neil.

He uniquely has discovered that it is a brazen plot to install Alex Mugabe Salmond as the glorious eternal Lord of all Scotia. All opposition will be outlawed and all citiz..oops sorry vassals Will be required to sport Salmond cut hairstyles.

Funnily enough in spite of its blatant assault on democracy, the no campaign have had little to say about it.

As ever, Neil knows best.

I'm merely pointing out the facts - in Scotland the people are NOT sovereign. You're happily giving it all away.

Not only to Alex, but back to rUK if Alex gets his wish of a CU - so you vote indy, and Alex will do his best to ignore it.

As I keep saying, it's only Alex's opinion that counts. You don't get a say until your country is stitched up.

And you get no power at all. All power is held for all time by politicians. Even your PR system is subject to their wants and not yours.

But brush it off like it doesn't matter, no differently to how you've brushed off everything else as tho it doesn't matter.

[eFestivals]

Hi, I`m back. I already have an EHIC card.

EHIC cards carried by iScottish citizens are worthless until iScotland is a member of EHIC.

It's a good job you don't run a business, i suspect you'd accept monopoly money.