Forum question

[Alty Mike]

Probably one only Neil can answer, but is this the quietest the forum has ever been? Or at least for a long time.

I think in almost 24hrs there has only been 2 posts. Crazy.

I've been on here for almost 4 years now and can't remember anything like it. I doubt it'll get much more busier until serious rumours start to come in and that could be a good 8 months off!

How do you guy keep sane?! I've resulted to building a Glastonbury wall; it has the last four posters up, with my ticket and wristband framed underneath them, and a couple of pictures i've had printed onto canvas.

[dingbat2]

It's Tumbleweed time on the glasto forums, I would imagine it happens every time there is a fallow year because the next Glasto is so far away. If it was 1st November any other year then it would be a lot busier because you would have the annual "the ticketing system is so unfair" from the ones who didn't get a ticket, and then a multitude of rumour threads from everyone who did get e ticket and are getting very excited already! If I had got a ticket this time next year I know I would already be getting excited and would be checking the forums more often

[eFestivals]

There's a few factors going on. The year off, of course. Facebook. And then there's stuff like bad weather for several summers making festivals less appealing, the recession meaning that people have less spare cash to spend on stuff like festivals, and finally (perhaps encasing those last two things too) festivals are going out of fashion to some extent.

Not only is this forum quieter, but the demand for festival tickets overall has been visibly falling for at least the last two summers and is likely to fall again next summer.

[Pinhead]

Can certainly concur - quietest I've known it for years, and I've been on here since '98. From memory (though could be wrong), I remember it being busier during the '06 and '01 years off, however I remember '96 being perhaps the only time when it was similarly as quiet. Sure Neil would have the stats . . . . ? My feeling is that Facebook has definately had the greatest impact - perhaps forums are becoming 'old fashioned' now in the face of all of these trendy alternatives. Definately though, festivals are the last issue on many minds - keeping one's job seems to be a priority for many I know right now.

[eFestivals]

Can certainly concur - quietest I've known it for years, and I've been on here since '98. From memory (though could be wrong), I remember it being busier during the '06 and '01 years off, however I remember '96 being perhaps the only time when it was similarly as quiet. Sure Neil would have the stats . . . . ? My feeling is that Facebook has definately had the greatest impact - perhaps forums are becoming 'old fashioned' now in the face of all of these trendy alternatives. Definately though, festivals are the last issue on many minds - keeping one's job seems to be a priority for many I know right now.

The site didn't start till '98 (and I'm pretty sure there were no forums till '99). But anyway.....

The Facebook impact hasn't been as great as you're believing. There's a stronger relationship between the popularity of fests and numbers here than there is with the rise of Facebook.

And deeper still, there's also a 'westlife fan factor' going on, tho I don't have the time right now to explain what I mean by that (it's time for nosh ).

Edited November 1, 2011 by eFestivals

[LondonTom]

The site didn't start till '98 (and I'm pretty sure there were no forums till '99). But anyway.....

The Facebook impact hasn't been as great as you're believing. There's a stronger relationship between the popularity of fests and numbers here than there is with the rise of Facebook.

And deeper still, there's also a 'westlife fan factor' going on, tho I don't have the time right now to explain what I mean by that (it's time for nosh ).

[dingbat2]

I am not sure if the quiteness of these boards is anything to do with the popularity of festivals generally. I would image 90% of the people who use these boards love festivals and have no intention of not going. The casual festival goers are the ones who stop going, and I suspect they have never heard of efestivals let alone use these forums (dont take offence Neil!)

I would be interested if Neil had any stats on how many threads/posts/views there were on the the Glasto forum this June compared with the previous June's? I suspect it might be getting higher each year. Also I would be interested to hear if traffic volumes are holding up for the other festivals who have a festival next year like Reading and V? Are they less than they were last October?

A few good rumours would soon liven the boards up a bit! I think thas a part of the problem, there isnt a lot of new decent music around at the moment for people to get excited about. Whether that trasnsfers to reduced sales of tickets next year only time will tell. I suspect it might next year

[eFestivals]

I am not sure if the quiteness of these boards is anything to do with the popularity of festivals generally. I would image 90% of the people who use these boards love festivals and have no intention of not going. The casual festival goers are the ones who stop going, and I suspect they have never heard of efestivals let alone use these forums (dont take offence Neil!)

I'm not offended at all. And you're right, it's the casuals who stop going, and it's the casuals who are least likely to use these boards. But the casuals have always made up a large part of any festival crowd.

But the issue for the festie scene currently is that the number of casuals has been growing steadily over the past 5-ish, and they leave 'the scene' as quickly as they arrive - which is why the popularity of festivals has been falling.

Meanwhile, lots of regulars have drifted away from festivals for a number of reasons (including 'festival boredom' caused by lack of innovation &/or enough new decent bands), without the same number of regulars coming in to replace them. And as far as posting here goes for those types, many have got bored with talking festivals having said it all more than once already - I notice that effect on myself, efests staff, friends, as well as on more random people.

Back to those casuals .... many of them nowadays are responsible for what I called above the 'westlife fan factor'. If you take the time to crowd-watch at many fests, and particularly with certain acts (Jessie J and N-Dubz being prime examples), you get to see that a sizeable proportion of the crowd is made up of 35-45 year old mothers with their teenage daughters. These are the types who in years gone by would have been lapping up Westlife. I'd even go as far as to say they actually don't like music, they merely want to see and be seen watching acts that they believe are cool and so make them cool.

And of course these sorts of people make the more 'really cool' types think "fuck that, I don't want to be associated with those types", and so it turns them away to find another scene for their musical hit.

The festival scene is changing, due to boredom, lack of decent acts, and those so very uncool mothers and their kids. That 'uncool' thing I've seen destroy music scenes before, so it's nothing new.

How the festie scene copes from here depends what it does and who gets booked. Sadly, I reckon that most have already chosen to go for the easy options, a drive to the bottom (by booking crap like Jessie J and N-Dubz, even Stock Aitken and waterman would be embarrassed to be associated with output like that), and so the fall will keep on going.

I would be interested if Neil had any stats on how many threads/posts/views there were on the the Glasto forum this June compared with the previous June's? I suspect it might be getting higher each year.

I don't have easy access to that info, but I'm pretty sure the numbers fell slightly this year compared to last. Not much tho.

Also I would be interested to hear if traffic volumes are holding up for the other festivals who have a festival next year like Reading and V? Are they less than they were last October?

I'm pretty sure they're less - but the demand for tickets for these fests (and T in the Park) has visibly fallen over the last 4-ish years. As soon as that started it was obvious that the fashion for festivals had passed its peak, but it's only really this year that the press has started to cotton on, and they're giving festivals less press now because of it (and so are compounding the problem).

A few good rumours would soon liven the boards up a bit! I think thas a part of the problem, there isnt a lot of new decent music around at the moment for people to get excited about. Whether that trasnsfers to reduced sales of tickets next year only time will tell. I suspect it might next year

The time of year certainly doesn't help. For the last 12 years the jump between the last 'normal' (pre-xmas) working day

of the year and the first working day of the year has been very sizeable for the hits this site receives. It'll be interesting to see if it's going to be as big this new year: I suspect it won't be, cos the fashion is ending.

[iwalker]

I think the music scene is very poor at the moment at the industry has gone to it's default setting of pop. Sadly the festivals can't conjure acts out of thin air.

Glastonbury can at least fall back on it's non-music side and can get headliners for a relatively cheap price. In pure terms of line up the V used to have some very good years but has now turned into a pop festival, which is commercially very shrewd if musically unfortunate.

Of the big boys, I suspect the 'rawk' festivals might struggle. Reading has lacked direction for a few years and the Download and Sonisphere both chase a limited supply of the same bands.

[Pinhead]

Really? i was sure you had the 'threaded conversations' style chat page up by Glasto '98 at least . . .

Do I detect a decline in interest now from yourself Neil after all these years running the site? i broadly agree too about what you say concerning the change in festivals and their punters too, though I think they have the capacity to adapt accordingly. As ever, Glasto will set the trend, or perhaps Eavis will decide to call it a day in a few years after all.

[Leedspete]

I think the music scene is very poor at the moment at the industry has gone to it's default setting of pop. Sadly the festivals can't conjure acts out of thin air.

Glastonbury can at least fall back on it's non-music side and can get headliners for a relatively cheap price. In pure terms of line up the V used to have some very good years but has now turned into a pop festival, which is commercially very shrewd if musically unfortunate.

Of the big boys, I suspect the 'rawk' festivals might struggle. Reading has lacked direction for a few years and the Download and Sonisphere both chase a limited supply of the same bands.

[eFestivals]

Really? i was sure you had the 'threaded conversations' style chat page up by Glasto '98 at least . . .

I can't remember for certain so you might be right, tho I don't think you are.

I do know for certain that the Glastonbury domain I used back then was only registered on 10th June '98, and I'm 99.9999% sure that the forums didn't exist on the personal webspace I used before registering that domain.

The one thing that's suggesting to me that I might be wrong and there were forums before the 98 fest is the fact that there was a small meet-up in '98 (backstage at Jazzworld) of people who were using my site then, and there must have been some means via which that came together.

Do I detect a decline in interest now from yourself Neil after all these years running the site?

In festivals overall, nope. But the way I spend my festivals now, the manner in which I enjoy them has changed. I'm certainly feeling a little more jaded about things and tend to be more selective about what I make the effort to specifically see, tho no doubt a part of that is a result of the somewhat stale music scene.

[eFestivals]

festivals becoming less fashionable due to scarcity of punters might not be a bad thing, both for line ups and people attending.

While it doesn't have to be a bad thing, I think in many cases it's turning out like that.

A festival wants to - needs to - sell its tickets, and it's without doubt the line-up that is the major driver of that (tho less so for the smaller fests).

A festival has a choice about how it does its line-up. It can go for the 'popular acts' (pop bands, if you like) whose popularity will guarantee that the tickets will shift, or it can try to be creative and interesting in the acts it books and - if it's got it right - that creative mix will create its own interest and make the tickets sell.

When a new festival is starting out the whole venture is risky, so being risky with its choice of line-up probably doesn't worry the organisers too much. But once its become established then the focus changes, from being happy to be taking risks to wanting firstly to make sure that the business is able to continue - and of course the safe way is to book the 'safe' and popular bands.

(that sort of thing isn't unique to festivals, it's the same for all businesses).

It only takes a glance at line-ups from ten years back to the line-ups today to see that many have opted for the safe route. It's not surprising, but by taking that drive to the bottom (something that can be seen all around in the economy at the moment) the ultimate outcome isn't good for either any individual festival that goes that route or for the whole scene altogether.

[iwalker]

Yeah regular festival goers do see the same bands on rotation, especially the rock ones. I also agree that the music scene has changed for the worse, even in the past 10 or 12 years. The line-ups don't do it for me as much, and although I'm older I'm still prepared to get involved, so it's not all about age.

I'd never go to Leeds except for the line up if I was paying. Glastonbury does have the people-just-come-for-the-experience advantage over most festivals, and although festivals going bust is terrible for those involved, festivals becoming less fashionable due to scarcity of punters might not be a bad thing, both for line ups and people attending.

[Sawdusty surfer]

might end up running out of bands big enough to fill the big stages http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-15694487

[AnnaGrant]

Well, I'm sat here in my lovely efestivals tee shirt posting on the forum, happily knowing that I've now got enough money saved to cover the cost of my next Glastonbury ticket, and despite being a mum I am outside the age range for the uncool mums (the wrong end of the age range, unfortunately). Does this save me from forum disapproval?

I keep popping by, although I don't always post. Keeps the interest levels high for me.

Re the current music scene, I will buy my ticket for G without any regard to who is playing. As well as the alternatives to music that G offers, there are always new musical experiences to discover, even bands who you never find out what they're called.

After a fallow year I can't imagine G won't sell out in hours, but other festivals that rely on named bands may struggle, especially as the economic situation doesn't look like it will be sorted anytime soon.

[Yoghurt on a Stick]

Well, I'm sat here in my lovely efestivals tee shirt posting on the forum, happily knowing that I've now got enough money saved to cover the cost of my next Glastonbury ticket, and despite being a mum I am outside the age range for the uncool mums (the wrong end of the age range, unfortunately). Does this save me from forum disapproval?

I keep popping by, although I don't always post. Keeps the interest levels high for me.

Re the current music scene, I will buy my ticket for G without any regard to who is playing. As well as the alternatives to music that G offers, there are always new musical experiences to discover, even bands who you never find out what they're called.

After a fallow year I can't imagine G won't sell out in hours, but other festivals that rely on named bands may struggle, especially as the economic situation doesn't look like it will be sorted anytime soon.

[bamber]

Quiet here? - there is a year and a half to the next festival? But it also occurs to me that casuals and newbie posters are put off by the presiding negativity towards all types of new music here in this forum amongst the regulars. Lumping Jessie for instance with N-Dubz as if they are just manifestations of the same thing? Nah. We all have narrow, particular tastes, but that shouldn't mean we need to be down on the unfamiliar, off sheet or popularist tastes of others. Look at that Badu and My Morning Jacket clip in the Erykah Badu thread, from this summer (That should have been at Glastonbury) The essence of live performance at it's very, sublime, best, guitars and screaming were never done better. I f you think all new music is shit and feel that festivals are doomed, then that that will be the self fulfilling prophesy of your life. If you wake each morning with an open mind and la joie de vivre your life will be so much better.

[Yoghurt on a Stick]

Hello bamber

I get what your saying about la joie de vivre and how we can embrace almost anything if we have the right frame of mind. To me that's what I get when I'm on holiday. When I'm not on holiday I wake up to a kick in the stones (figuratively speaking). I don't know how you can maintain such contentment but I wish it upon you all your life. I was thinking of treppaning to achieve what you must have. But then I'm a bit unsteady with the drill since the last Glasto. Take care.

[bamber]

Hello bamber

I get what your saying about la joie de vivre and how we can embrace almost anything if we have the right frame of mind. To me that's what I get when I'm on holiday. When I'm not on holiday I wake up to a kick in the stones (figuratively speaking). I don't know how you can maintain such contentment but I wish it upon you all your life. I was thinking of treppaning to achieve what you must have. But then I'm a bit unsteady with the drill since the last Glasto. Take care.

[ferraristu]

Am not sure whether its a fashion thing or laziness. Glastonbury looks amazing on the TV and I am sure people watch and think they want a slice of that. Turn up in Somerset for the weekend and have an amazing time.

The reality is somewhat different and I don't think a lot of people can deal with that. Glastonbury is f**king hard work, lots of walking over farmland, carrying your stuff etc etc - you all know the score.

To get the most out of Glastonbury you gotta put a few shifts in........people just aint used it - they want instant gratification.

I guess this applies to all festivals - I only have experience of Glastonbury though. I have camped all my life so its a walk in the park for me - still hate the log drops though ;-)

Edited November 12, 2011 by ferraristu

[HowdyBoss]

I can't remember for certain so you might be right, tho I don't think you are.

I do know for certain that the Glastonbury domain I used back then was only registered on 10th June '98, and I'm 99.9999% sure that the forums didn't exist on the personal webspace I used before registering that domain.

The one thing that's suggesting to me that I might be wrong and there were forums before the 98 fest is the fact that there was a small meet-up in '98 (backstage at Jazzworld) of people who were using my site then, and there must have been some means via which that came together.

[eFestivals]

Lumping Jessie for instance with N-Dubz as if they are just manifestations of the same thing?

They are. Rubbish.

Jessie only has one thing above them, and that's the ability to hold a note (with a screech). The effect is much the same tho, aural torture.

A bit of crowd watching shows the audiences are predominantly made up of 12 to 14 year old girls and their Westlife-liking mothers. That says it all.

[Ohinever]

http://web.archive.org/web/19990209072252/http://www.glastonbury-festival.co.uk/

Seems to confirm there was a message board in 99.

[Ohinever]

http://web.archive.org/web/19990220175423/http://www.glastonbury-festival.co.uk/siteinfo/mission.htm

And here in Nov 98 Neil talks about a new mission statement that includes festival goers to communicate with each other.

Small world Neil btw - Simon is a good friend of mine too!