US Presidential elections 2012

[eFestivals]

If you think Guantanamo was bush's fault you're more stupid than bush.

it was Bush's choice to create it, rather than use the other - legal - options open to him. Once he'd created the monster, those other options having been closed off by its creation, public opinion makes it very hard to close.

Yes, it was his fault.

Please show me how smart you are by telling me who's fault you think it is.

Edited November 7, 2012 by eFestivals

[strummer77]

Obama's not perfect, hell nowhere near, but he's about the best you can feasibly get in America at the present time. So on that front, be thankful.

Now there's no chance of a Republican taking his spot I'm also happy for a bit more criticism of him. Although hopefully with him not having to face re-election again he can be a bit more radical this term (if Congress let him of course...)

[abdoujaparov]

Obama's not perfect, hell nowhere near, but he's about the best you can feasibly get in America at the present time. So on that front, be thankful.

Now there's no chance of a Republican taking his spot I'm also happy for a bit more criticism of him. Although hopefully with him not having to face re-election again he can be a bit more radical this term (if Congress let him of course...)

[BlackHole2006]

[TheGayTent]

Try Dick and his faceless superiors

[eFestivals]

Try Dick and his faceless superiors

even if it was Dick's bidding, it was still GW's choice.

[TheGayTent]

Piffle

[strummer77]

although it is a bit like having your leg sawn off with a rusty hacksaw and being told to be grateful that it wasn't your arm as well

[abdoujaparov]

True, on foreign policy for sure. Obama's social policy is much better though even if, because it's America, it doesn't go anywhere near what I'd want. The Republican social policy is unbelievable.

[abdoujaparov]

isn't Obama making moves to get out of the wars they're (U.S.) involved in?

[abdoujaparov]

I'm reminded of how people used to say that Blair had become so middle/right that there wasn't any difference between the Tories and Labour

now look!

[Kyelo]

Really? Tell that to the families of innocent Afghans murdered by the US. I'm sure that it will make them feel a whole lot better

[abdoujaparov]

I agree with the point but 'killed' is a far cry from 'murdered'.

[Kyelo]

murder = unlawful killing

the killing of unarmed non-combatants is unlawful...what word would you use if murder isnt the right one?

[strummer77]

I'm completely indifferent about his social policy...I'm not American, so it has no impact on me. Insofar as the election has an impact on me, it's a product of the president's foreign policy and as far as that's concerned there's precious little difference between the two.

[abdoujaparov]

Basically the intent behind it is different to me.

[abdoujaparov]

See it might not affect me but I still care about the rights of others. Those issues are important ones.

Edited November 7, 2012 by abdoujaparov

[Kyelo]

whatever the fucking intent, the outcome is the same...the US are either intentionally killing innocent civilians, or they're indifferent as to whether or not they are or they are reckless as to whether or not they are...whichever way to .choose to stack it, there a innocent people being killed

[eFestivals]

Piffle

i'm glad that the 'smart' argument is one of such depth and factual points.

[mrtourette]

sure, I care about the rights of others, but it's not as if Romney wanted to round up poor people and have them gassed or legalise cannibalism. Frankly, the differences between the two in terms of social policy are pretty fucking marginal.

[mrtourette]

isn't Obama making moves to get out of the wars they're (U.S.) involved in?

[mrtourette]

and his healthcare plan is good ... no?

[eFestivals]

I would have to disagree with that, they're miles apart.

I've seen a lot of comment on news programmes in the last 24 hours or so which has basically said that Obama's political views are about average for traditional Republican, that he's a right-leaning democrat (or at least, as a black man it's been a political necessity for him to present himself and act as that).

The main difference, and what makes him look 'leftish' (particularly in the UK) against the nuttiness of tea-party age Republicanism is what those Republicans would regard as "social liberalism" - his support for gay rights and women's rights. But that was explained as nothing to do with him being a 'social liberal', but simply that he's a modern person in touch with modern views (views that the ageing Republicans at the top of their party just don't get).

If you like, you can make an easy comparison with Dave Moron and his support for gay marriage. He's got the modern age in a way that most of his party has not.

Edited November 8, 2012 by eFestivals

[eFestivals]

In theory yes, but in reality it's still light years away from the NHS. In fact it's not much like it at all.

whatever Obamacare is, it's a broad idea that just about every President of either side has championed over decades, but not been able to make happen for various political reasons.

What makes it such a big success is Obama having been able to get it thru at a time of greatest resistance from Republicans ... but come the next election it won't be a political issue at all. The argument has been won and the idea will be entrenched by then.

[zahidf]

whatever Obamacare is, it's a broad idea that just about every President of either side has championed over decades, but not been able to make happen for various political reasons.

What makes it such a big success is Obama having been able to get it thru at a time of greatest resistance from Republicans ... but come the next election it won't be a political issue at all. The argument has been won and the idea will be entrenched by then.