Football 2011-2012

[JBarbour]

Just my opinion, but if my team were about to win the league I wouldn't give a flying fuck about anyone else's opinions. Surely your greatest joy is enjoying winning the league?

[JBarbour]

lol guess I was right

[thetime]

But I agree, of all the players they will lose, hes to most difficult to replace. Not including Fergie obviously. Utd fans are shitting themselves about him going. Constantly at the back of everyones mind.

[The Nal]

I wonder how many of the premier league glory hunters will go when we become less successful?

[The Nal]

I wonder how many of the arm chair / pub supporters will replace them... Not many I would imagine... It was £50 last time I went with the old man... I can't see there being many more out there willing to stack up those notes for a unsuccessful team week in week out. Not to the tune of 70,000+

Its the foreign day trippers who would try up I would of thought... or maybe they are now the true reds after all these years

Edited April 10, 2012 by The Nal

[The Nal]

Someone has the money clearly though... Every game you get tons of Irish heading over...

Heard when they built the North Stand a lot of the season tickets where sold to the Irish supporter clubs etc... Don't know how true that one is though...

Edited April 10, 2012 by The Nal

[strummer77]

I've been over to a good few games over the years, first in 1992 and last in 2008, but just cant afford it now. £400 minimum all in for a game to come over from Dublin. Thats a months rent for me.

[eFestivals]

Theres no difference between one yard or 10 yards in that case.

there's a huge difference. Pressure gives a player less time and space. No pressure gives that player all the time in tyhe world to make sure the pass is a perfect as it could possibly be.

I can play a straight ball most of the time, but my ability to do so becomes less the less time and space I'm given. That fact doesn't change if the player is Scholes and not me.

well trained defenders

what the defenders are best 'trained' in doing in this example is not putting themselves forwards to have the finger pointed at them if Scholes does play the ball around them - instead they can sit back in the pack and have the finger pointed at them no more than any other player.

It might be a sensible self-preservation routine for a player, but it's not what is best for the team. The team does not benefit by allowing Scholes to pick the best pass he possibly can.

What's the difference between QPR and Norwich? Pressure. If Norwich had given Spurs that amount of time and space yesterday's result would have been different.

I might add, who would have studied videos of him in the week of the game - giving Darren Gibson that space? Did you see Newcastle give Jay Spearing space last week? No, you didn't. And the reason you didn't is because they know if they hassle Gibson and Spearing they may win the ball. Thats not the case with Scholes and others. Not only will they not will the ball, they'll be passed by.

Barca have a similar style of play against good teams. When they lose the ball they hassle like crazy for 5 seconds (as the opposition are vulnerable then having just won the ball) and if they haven't won the ball in 5 seconds they retreat, get compact across the pitch, get organised and then start again - i.e. they let the opposition have the ball. The players are thought that at Barcas youth training camps from day one.

so when did QPR "start again"?

Only when they picked the ball out of the net.

Having 10 players on the 18 yard line while Scholes pings the ball around trying to find a way thru only guarantees that he WILL find a way thru.

The difference between Barca and Scholes is that Barca can pass straight, and thru the smallest gap, and where the ball can get moved on without a controlling touch - all the things that get beaten out of any player in England as 'bad and dangerous' habits. You're comparing apples with oranges here.

I'm not necessarily saying that players should 'hassle' Scholes, that they should be trying to get right next to him and tackle the ball from him. I'm saying that he needs to be put under pressure, some pressure, rather than none at all. He might be the best player that Britain has ever produced, but he ain't that great at passing straight (like all players in this country). It ain't that hard to force an error from him, while there'll be no error from him if he's given that much time and space.

[thetime]

I suppose you can only go by when united were not very successful lets say 70s/80s. when united were in division 2 they were still getting gates of 50,000/60,000 so hmm difficult one.

[thetime]

On the argument of scholes getting to much time on the ball, dont you think managers and coaches have though about that one? Its not as straight forward as that is it?

[thetime]

You have to factor the price though... Its insanely more expensive now...

[The Nal]

there's a huge difference. Pressure gives a player less time and space. No pressure gives that player all the time in tyhe world to make sure the pass is a perfect as it could possibly be.

I can play a straight ball most of the time, but my ability to do so becomes less the less time and space I'm given. That fact doesn't change if the player is Scholes and not me.

Edited April 10, 2012 by The Nal

[thetime]

What do people think of alan davies comments about liverpool not playing on hillsborough anniverary date?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/liverpool/9194491/Arsenal-fan-Alan-Davies-under-fire-after-criticising-Liverpools-refusal-to-play-on-Hillsborough-anniversary.html

[eFestivals]

You're not giving the talented players enough credit.

I am. You're crediting Scholes with FAR more talent than he has, because....

Scholes is a master at that.

PMSL

He's good at many things, but passing straight every time when under pressure (or even under no pressure), thru tight gaps, and one-touch, are none of the things he's good at.

Scholes and the current Barca are a million miles apart. A hundred million. A thousand million.

If Scholes played in the current Barca team the other 10 would be queued up around the manager after 5 minutes begging that Scholes was taken off cos he kept giving the ball away.

Hence the reason he is so respected abroad. Hes the father of that movement and not a typical English player. Hes mentioned a lot in Barca's youth training. All the Barca players scrambling to get his jersey after the Champions League final last year?! He would be great at Barca.

PMSL

Dont know what to say Neil - I completely disagree with all of that. Scholes can't pass straight? He wouldn't have got very far if he couldn't do that.

"He would be great at Barca"?

He'd be great for proving that he can't pass straight, and zilch more.

He can pass in an English game, with big gaps, and where the receiver is someone with enough space to take a controlling touch.

He'd be a joke in the current Barca team. He might just get to play alongside Mascho in defence (cos he can't pass either).

Edited April 10, 2012 by eFestivals

[thetime]

He'd be a joke in the current Barca team. He might just get to play alongside Mascho in defence (cos he can't pass either).

Edited April 10, 2012 by thetime

[The Nal]

I am. You're crediting Scholes with FAR more talent than he has, because....

PMSL

He's good at many things, but passing straight every time when under pressure (or even under no pressure), thru tight gaps, and one-touch, are none of the things he's good at.

Scholes and the current Barca are a million miles apart. A hundred million. A thousand million.

If Scholes played in the current Barca team the other 10 would be queued up around the manager after 5 minutes begging that Scholes was taken off cos he kept giving the ball away.

PMSL

"He would be great at Barca"?

He'd be great for proving that he can't pass straight, and zilch more.

He can pass in an English game, with big gaps, and where the receiver is someone with enough space to take a controlling touch.

He'd be a joke in the current Barca team. He might just get to play alongside Mascho in defence (cos he can't pass either).

[strummer77]

What do people think of alan davies comments about liverpool not playing on hillsborough anniverary date?

http://www.telegraph...nniversary.html

[eFestivals]

Im sure xavi knows more than you neil!

http://www.dailymail...r-20-years.html

As I said, just disagree 100% with you on this. As will 99.99% of the footballing world.

What, 99.99% of the footballing world think that Scholes wouldn't look out of place in the current Barca team?

Can Scholes play one-touch? Nope.

Can Scholes thread passes thru the tiniest of gaps, continually, and almost never without error? Nope.

He has other attributes, but he doesn't have the attributes which would see him playing in that Barca team, of that I've got absolutely no doubt whatsoever. His skills are a 100% mis-match.

[The Nal]

Can Scholes play one-touch? Nope.

Can Scholes thread passes thru the tiniest of gaps, continually, and almost never without error? Nope.

[eFestivals]

Have you ever seen him play?

No, I've had the TV on with my eyes shut for nearly 20 years.

Does he always (95%+) of the time take a controlling touch? Yep. Barca do it less than 50%.

And Fergie (or any other manager in England) would shoot him if he tried playing any pass Barca style.

Playing a ball 50 years thru the air is not Barca style. I'm surprised that's passed you by.

Scholes can't even play a 15 yard pass along the ground on target to someone in acres of space for even 50% of the time. That doesn't mean that Scholes is the worst player in England but it means he wouldn't last a whole game in the Barca team unless they changed their whole style of play.

[The Nal]

Does he always (95%+) of the time take a controlling touch? Yep. Barca do it less than 50%.

And Fergie (or any other manager in England) would shoot him if he tried playing any pass Barca style.

Edited April 10, 2012 by The Nal

[strummer77]

Sean Derry's appeal rejected.

All hail the FA's justice system...

[eFestivals]

Huge difference between him not doing it and him not being able to do it. He can choose to do it if he wants and does it regularly. Especially around the edge of the box.

he might be able to do it - but you don't know and I don't know because he doesn't. None of what he does is anything like how the current Barca play.

He doesnt always take a controlling touch.

well, true, no player always does. But Scholes is no different to most in England who've had one-touch beaten out of them, if they try it it ballons somewhere not intended.

And heres what happens ....

.... when you try to present him playing like Barca and prove it's absolutely nothing like it, with no tight passes only passes in acres of space for both him and who he's playing to, and fifty yard balls that you see from Barca every 10 years and not every ten minutes?

Pressure on him, pressure not on him, it doesn't matter.

You didn't watch the game the other day then.

[wee_insomniac]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/17666840 Has this ever happened before? I thought Referees were untouchable?

[The Nal]

Sean Derry's appeal rejected.

All hail the FA's justice system...

Edited April 10, 2012 by The Nal