Football 2011-2012

[eFestivals]

Last night witnessed Probert give the worse refereeing display at the Boleyn since Paul Danson. An 'elite' referee apparently!

If he helped Soton get the draw, then good on him.

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TGT, how do you feel about your latest signing, and him being on a charge before he's even kicked a ball?

[pink_triangle]

Strange from the outside. Many Huddersfield aren't surprised or upset though. Rarely picked the same team two games running, strange tactics (including starting their top goalscorer on the bench in the Play Off Final) and drawing a lot of games. Which I guess must have been true to have gone 40 games unbeaten but not be clear in top spot (albeit split over two seasons).

Just looked, Orient down in 15th place have won more away matches than Huddersfield who have drawn the equal most amount of games in the league.

[TheGayTent]

I dont think it matters whether you get points home or away as long as you get them. The fact is theres only 3 teams above them and these are giants by league 1 standards.

[kaosmark2]

I would argue though that you generally need to score to win international games and if england were favouring lampard it could easily be justitifed by the fact that throughout his career he has been a more consistent scorer than scholes or gerrard. In fact for all 3 players there isnt really any drop off between club and international scoring record, so i suspect that the effect of other players playing (slightly) out of position is exagerard and used as an excuse. I would also say that lampard has far less friends in the media (heavily liverpool/arsenal/man utd dominated) than either scholes or gerrard which has resulted in him gettinf scapegoated at times.

[pink_triangle]

And Fat Frank's a more consistent scorer because he shoots the most. I think he holds the record for most shots off target in world cup history. He was also the 1st choice pen taker for a year or two.

[eFestivals]

Well maybe players need to take note of him and shoot more often! As I have said I remember 2 times at international level he has scored goals (one given, one wrongly disallowed) in big knockout games. Im struggling to think of current teammates who have done anything but play poorly and miss penalties.

he also missed at least one sitter where can't-cross-Walcott put the ball perfectly on his toe (I forget which game).

[kaosmark2]

Well maybe players need to take note of him and shoot more often! As I have said I remember 2 times at international level he has scored goals (one given, one wrongly disallowed) in big knockout games. Im struggling to think of current teammates who have done anything but play poorly and miss penalties.

[pink_triangle]

I think you're likely to score more if you play around and create good chances (ala Scholes did) than if you keep making speculative shots from 35 yards. Gerrard only scores slightly fewer and he misses far fewer sitters and gives the ball away by taking potshots less.

[kaosmark2]

Slightly fewer? debatable! Lampard has scored 10+ premieship goals 8 times in a season (soon to be 9), Gerrard 3 times (unikely to be 4 this season). A team like spain will score more if they play around and create chances. If England a team with few players with great ball retention try, they are more likely to give it away and cause a counter attack. At least of lampard shoots and misses, there probably is enough time for players to get back. I maintain if lampard had played for liverpool, man u or arsenal (the 3 teams heavily supported by journalists and tv) he would be much higher rated.

Edited February 15, 2012 by kaosmark2

[The Nal]

Lampard: 23 in 90

Gerrard 19 in 89

[kaosmark2]

Considering their club form over the last 10 years, thats exceptionally poor.

Heres an international player for you - Robbie Keane. 53 goals in 114 games.

Edited February 15, 2012 by kaosmark2

[eFestivals]

Considering their club form over the last 10 years, thats exceptionally poor.

Heres an international player for you - Robbie Keane. 53 goals in 114 games.

the difference is that Keane is a striker and those two others are not.

All three are about hitting the numbers you'd expect from players in their positions.

[Ed209]

I seem to remember Gerrard scoring 2 important goals in the 2006 group stages when Lampard was doing his best at trying to put the ball into orbit. He also scored the goal against the USA in the last world cup. Whereas Lampard hasn't scored a single World Cup goal (although thats thanks to a dodgy linesman). There's been a few important qualifying goals from Gerarrd as well.

Then at club level Stevie G has scored some hugely important goals at important times (Champion's league Final, FA Cup Final). Can't remember Lampard stepping up to the plate for the really big Champo League games

Edited February 15, 2012 by Ed209

[The Nal]

Gerrard's is about 1 in 4 for Liverpool. Not that much better than international. I don't really think that's the problem with Gerrard's England performances. It's more his overall performances, tendency to hoof the ball up to a big striker, and placement on a wing then drifting in.

[kaosmark2]

I seem to remember Gerrard scoring 2 important goals in the 2006 group stages when Lampard was doing his best at trying to put the ball into orbit. He also scored the goal against the USA in the last world cup. Whereas Lampard hasn't scored a single World Cup goal (although thats thanks to a dodgy linesman). There's been a few important qualifying goals from Gerarrd as well.

Then at club level Stevie G has scored some hugely important goals at important times (Champion's league Final, FA Cup Final). Can't remember Lampard stepping up to the plate for the really big Champo League games

[kaosmark2]

Oh course yeah, I'm not saying they should be getting goals every other game but they're not normal midfielders. Gerrard and Lamps have had multiple seasons for their clubs where they've been banging in 20+ goals from midfield. They've never got near their top club form for England have they? Same for Rooney and Scholes.

The only player who has gone over and above for England in my opinion is Beckham.

All leads to the point that they place club ahead of country just like the Spanish did until the Madrid/Barca divide was conquered. Something England have yet to do (North/South) and something that I think 'Arry maybe could do with Gerrard as captain.

[The Nal]

Not just finals, Gerrard dragged Liverpool through final group matches, 2nd leg deficits, etc. as well.

Edited February 15, 2012 by The Nal

[kaosmark2]

Gerrard was a one man team for Liverpool at various points in the last 10 years. Why he hasn't been Englands main man is beyond me.

[strummer77]

I think Cashley's been good for England. He made his name at Portugal 04 by managing to nullify Christiano. Crouch's international record is a lot better than his club record as well.

[The Nal]

Not sure completely on the English Lpool/Manc split because Gerrard and Rooney get on really well it seems. That might have bridged that divide somewhat.

[strummer77]

Two scousers though! their missus' are mates too.

Red Nev and Jamie Carragher. Thats a different story!

[kaosmark2]

Crouch is a fantastic International option in my opinion. Might not be brilliant against the bigger sides but he scores tons against the minnows, and that should get you top spot in a group (which we vitally failed in doing last time). Remember his breakthrough against Trinidad and Tobago? I'd take him without Rooney available, personally. He could be useful in those first couple of games.

Owen was always good for England too, Cole as you said... Arguably Ferdinand too. Apart from that can't think of many.

Not sure completely on the English Lpool/Manc split because Gerrard and Rooney get on really well it seems. That might have bridged that divide somewhat.

[The Nal]

Did Neville and Carragher really hate each other? I'd get the feeling there would be some grudging respect for each other. In many ways they're very similar people.

[kaosmark2]

Completely changing topic.....

Anyone watch the Leverkusen-Barca game last night? What fantastic balls from Messi and Fabregas for Sanchez's goals. Cracking game. I'm quite optimistic about tonight's as well. Odds on Henry to come on and get an equaliser/winner before he departs?

[The Nal]

I'm quite optimistic about tonight's as well. Odds on Henry to come on and get an equaliser/winner before he departs?