Football 2011-2012

[pink_triangle]

Carragher did as well a couple of years back. Something along the lines of "Ferguson isn't the reason we're no longer the most successful club, Souness is."

And yep. Fucking awful manager. I lay the blame for our collapse from regularly finishing in the top 5, progressing through the group stage of the Champs Lge, getting to Uefa Cup semi-finals, to a Championship side, upon him. Sold all our best players for a pittance, spunked a load of money on Rangers rejects, got the rest of our good players constantly injured. Roeder did fantastically to stave off our collapse.

[kaosmark2]

I personally think carragher is going after an easy target in souness. He did a poor job at liverpool but there are several players during that era who also need to take responsibility for liverpools decline at that time.

I agree he did an awful job at newcastle but would disagree that he is an awful manager. In my opinion awful managers dont generally win league cups with average teams. Awful managers dont have 40+ % win records with the vast majority of teams they have managed. Their are loads of managers who have never had success at any football club they have managed. I agree he is deeply flawed and they type of manager who can only do a job in the short term untill he falls out with half his squad, but I could easily produce a long list of managers who I would rank below him, newcastle legend alan shearer for one!

[Kowalski]

So Evra actually accused him of something worse than what he did? And you see no inconsistency or problem with that? Mind. Boggles.

Edit: Another article from the Telegraph. Coming out thick and fast now

http://www.telegraph...ry-process.html

[strummer77]

Yes its all coming out thick and fast .....from Liverpool.

[eFestivals]

Yes its all coming out thick and fast .....from Liverpool.

yep, it probably is. There's not that many sources for the info, and I'd guess these stories are the result of Kenny being chased by journos after his "there's more I'd like to say more but I don't want to get in trouble" comment on TV the other night.

It doesn't mean it's wrong info tho. They appear to be Liverpool's reasons for why they feel the procedure was flawed, and reached the wrong verdict as a result.

Working from the basis that it is stuff that's come from Liverpool, and that the factual stuff is accurate (it's not like lying about these things would do them any favours, don't forget) ....

Some of it I think seems rather petty, not too relevant, or just picking holes for the sake of it.

The fact that Evra was given access to the videos but Suarez wasn't (when in criminal courts a defendant ALWAYS has access to the evidence against him before the trial so he can prepare a defence) is damning of the process to me. That's a HUGE fail.

The 'nigger/negro' thing is perhaps being mis-represented as something it isn't. They've presented it as Evra changing his story - suggesting he's a liar - when (as suggested to me here earlier) it's quite possibly the result of Evra having mistaken 'negro' to mean 'nigger' and him wising up to that, which is a very reasonable and understandable reason for the change of story and doesn't make him a liar.

BUT .... that means that Evra made the complaint when he thought he was being called 'nigger', when in fact he was being called 'black'. Whatever we each might think of Suarez's guilt, believe/not believe either player, and where racism starts or not with what was said, surely we can all agree that difference in words make the incident a different - larger - thing at the time of the complaint to what it was at the time of the hearing?

[strummer77]

The 'nigger/negro' thing is perhaps being mis-represented as something it isn't. They've presented it as Evra changing his story - suggesting he's a liar - when (as suggested to me here earlier) it's quite possibly the result of Evra having mistaken 'negro' to mean 'nigger' and him wising up to that, which is a very reasonable and understandable reason for the change of story and doesn't make him a liar.

BUT .... that means that Evra made the complaint when he thought he was being called 'nigger', when in fact he was being called 'black'. Whatever we each might think of Suarez's guilt, believe/not believe either player, and where racism starts or not with what was said, surely we can all agree that difference in words make the incident a different - larger - thing at the time of the complaint to what it was at the time of the hearing?

Edited January 5, 2012 by strummer77

[Ed209]

January Transfer news: LFC and CFC are apparently in a bidding war for Diane Abbott

[strummer77]

January Transfer news: LFC and CFC are apparently in a bidding war for Diane Abbott

[eFestivals]

Thing is if Suarez repeated the word 7 times, including 5 times in a row ("Dale Negro negro negro negro negro) how hard was it for Evra to pick the right word? They aren't that similar and every Spanish speaker would know the word negro and he's been over here long enough I'm sure to understand the word nigger. He certainly knew it in 2004...

Also it was actually Suarez who put forward the 'Negro' word. No-one else. Why is he apparently a credible witness with this absolutely vital piece of information but nothing else?

Lots of holes. He might have said it, but I can't see how they could feel comfortable charging him with so many unanswered questions.

I was thinking about it from a different angle - that if Evra thought he'd been called 'negro' and not 'nigger', would he have ever even made the complaint?

It depends how a person views the severity of each word and the insult it carries, but I don't think I'd be wrong in saying that for most people it doesn't come any worse than 'nigger', with everything else being lesser to that.

If he thought he'd been called nigger - as it's admitted he did - he'd be understandably angry and make a complaint.

If he'd thought he'd been called 'negro', would it have had the same follow thru? He might still have considered it a racial slur, but perhaps one that he could brush off and not bother to complain about.

None of that removes the fact of wrongdoing (dependent what version you go with) within that, but I'm quite amused that all of the controversy around this incident might never had existed without what might be a misunderstanding over the offensive word in question.

[eFestivals]

January Transfer news: LFC and CFC are apparently in a bidding war for Diane Abbott

getting a black player in? Then they're clearly not racists.

[strummer77]

getting a black player in? Then they're clearly not racists.

[pink_triangle]

I heard that 3 sets of clubs fans voted him as their worst manager of all time. Pretty damning.

He did do well at Blackburn, but he hasn't got a 40+% record with most has he? And didn't he nearly start a riot out in Turkey?

[thetime]

I wouldnt put the demise of liverpool on souness, but on daglish.

He let the squad at the time go past there best and had to ship out alot if the dross.

Daglish isnt a great manager at all, and was left a great side already in place with great leaders. He didnt gave to do fuck all and when he did, he just quit.

And newcastle fans think every managers shit apart from keegan! Even sir bobby got sacked.

Edited January 5, 2012 by thetime

[Ed209]

Shteve McClaren is back at FC Twente. Good excuse to post this again. Always good for a giggle

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWptErAWrmQ

[strummer77]

I wouldnt put the demise of liverpool on souness, but on daglish.

He let the squad at the time go past there best and had to ship out alot if the dross.

Daglish isnt a great manager at all, and was left a great side already in place with great leaders. He didnt gave to do fuck all and when he did, he just quit.

Edited January 6, 2012 by strummer77

[strummer77]

Shteve McClaren is back at FC Twente. Good excuse to post this again. Always good for a giggle

[kaosmark2]

I suppose it depends how accurate wikipedia is

http://en.wikipedia..../Graeme_Souness

I think a contributing fact for him being voted the worst manager of all time at clubs is the fact that he isnt very likable and those "of all time" polls generally favour poeple from recent history. You can call him an awful but I can guarrantee you the vast majority of managers in britain would be ecstatic to have his managerial record and not all of them can be awful. How many recent british managers have won at least 2 domestic trophies saf, o neil, kenny, now im struggling! I wouldnt call him a great manager, probably not an good one, but if your calling him awful your setting the bar very high in my opinion.

[kaosmark2]

I wouldnt put the demise of liverpool on souness, but on daglish.

He let the squad at the time go past there best and had to ship out alot if the dross.

Daglish isnt a great manager at all, and was left a great side already in place with great leaders. He didnt gave to do fuck all and when he did, he just quit.

And newcastle fans think every managers shit apart from keegan! Even sir bobby got sacked.

[strummer77]

Right, Demba Ba is off. Who do you replace him with in fantasy football?

[thetime]

List of daglish liverpool signings first time around.

http://www.lfchistory.net/Transfers/ByManager/12-1

You did well there strummer picking out the odd success.

Souness got left with dross and players pass there sell by date.

Daglish is just a lucky manager, even winning title at blackburn was lucky. Only reason he won title there was because cantona wad suspended for months and we had to rely on cole.

[eFestivals]

I wouldnt put the demise of liverpool on souness, but on daglish.

He let the squad at the time go past there best and had to ship out alot if the dross.

Daglish isnt a great manager at all, and was left a great side already in place with great leaders. He didnt gave to do fuck all and when he did, he just quit.

And newcastle fans think every managers shit apart from keegan! Even sir bobby got sacked.

yeah, there's was nothing about Dalglish's exit that had anything at all to do with him having to live thru both Heysel and Hillsboro, and then work with and thru the consequences of those.

[thetime]

yeah, there's was nothing about Dalglish's exit that had anything at all to do with him having to live thru both Heysel and Hillsboro, and then work with and thru the consequences of those.

[eFestivals]

If you mean let alot of people down by not stopping and dealing with it.....then yes.

I really don't know know what to say to that, I really don't.

I can only think it must be a great life in ignorant bliss.

[thetime]

I really don't know know what to say to that, I really don't.

I can only think it must be a great life in ignorant bliss.

[The Nal]

You need no excuse to post that. It is the single funniest thing in the history of the world. I love it.

In fact it should be posted every day just to remind us that the game we all get obsessed about isn't serious at all. In fact it's hilarious.