Football 2011-2012

[TheGayTent]

I think its a pity about the league cup draw, effectively makes the semi a 2 legged final.

[eFestivals]

They could've went in for a load of strikers for the same cash.

I'

I'm not so sure they could have, at the point that everything happened (so late in that transfer window).

There will have been some strikers which some clubs wouldn't have parted with at that point for any amount of money, cos money isn't a lot of good if you've got no chance to spend it on a needed replacement.

And I don't buy the "ooh but Torres left so late, they HAD to get someone in" argument either. Surely thats poor management from the club if thats the case? Torres wanted to leave after the World Cup. They knew this.

I accept that it can be viewed as poor management, and perhaps it was.

But Torres had been persuaded to stay back then, and with the manager having just changed (which the club would have known was happening before the players) perhaps they felt he could be persuaded again. We've little idea of what might have gone on within the club in those frantic few days.

And that management change would have surely had a big impact on considerations for any replacement too. For all we know they might have had another striker lined up that was Woy's choice but who wasn't wanted by Kenny, meaning that they had to start again from scratch.

I get where you're coming from, but things might not have been as simple as you're thinking given the other changes at the club around that time.

They defo dropped a bollock with buying Carroll. But they're far from being the first club to make a very poor but very expensive buy (your own club has a number, and under "the best manager ever" ), and on-paper there's lots of reasons why it might have worked out well (and you never know, it might still do - tho I doubt it). It was a rushed buy, and rushed buys have extra risks.

If you think back to skippy's signing by Utd, there were plenty who thought that was money spunked up the wall not much different to the buying of Carroll - cos skippy was all tricks and no substance for quite a long while. It took at least two years (and probably more, I forget) for that to look even just decent value (and more years for it to be a bargain).

[The Nal]

But they're far from being the first club to make a very poor but very expensive buy (your own club has a number, and under "the best manager ever" )

[kaosmark2]

I'm an Everton supporter, so personally I'd rather they didn't get relegated.

[kaosmark2]

There's your massive if. We effectively got Suarez and Carroll for Torres. Not that bad of a deal really.

[strummer77]

Suarez and Carroll for Torres and Babel, not for just Torres. Still seems like a good swap to me.

[pink_triangle]

Suarez and Carroll for Torres and Babel, not for just Torres. Still seems like a good swap to me.

[kaosmark2]

I have heard this comparison often and think its a case of dressing up a bad situation. A far better deal for me would be torres and babel for suarez and 35 million pound! I think you have to look at the transfers as individual cases. Suarez signing = good, torres selling = good, carrol buying = bad. I dont agree with the idea its ok to make 1 bad move if you make 2 good ones, whats stopping a club making 3 good moves. In my opinion only one team did well out of the carrol/ torres triangle and that was newcastle.

[ralph250]

O'Neill then for Sunderland.

I think Bruce should have no complaints if sacked, the likes of wigan, swansea and norwich would give anything to have a squad like his. I think Bruce has an eye for a decent player but doesnt seem to be able to get the best out of players. His policy of going after every man utd reject is also flawed because the record of players in the premiership once they leave man utd is at best very mixed.

[thetime]

You can always rely on Ralph not to give a short sharp comment!!!

[ralph250]

You can always rely on Ralph not to give a short sharp comment!!!

[thetime]

Hey!

[ralph250]

Only messing Ralph lol!

[kaosmark2]

We weren't really riding on a high when we beat them, as it was 2nd game of the season with only a home draw already gained (albeit against Arsenal). Looking back our win there doesn't look as bad for them, but at the time it was pretty important. If things had gone their way and the result gone differently - and while we were the better side it was definitely a close thing - seasons might have gone differently since then.

[TheGayTent]

Ralph, not necessarily pointing the finger in terms of net spend. No doubting the elephant man has had players leave he had no control over. What I'd argue is that he has poorly used the funds he was given. I'd contest a better manager could have bought better players for smaller fees and on less wages than Bruce did...and to some extent the proof is in the pudding....

How many of his signings were successful? All managers buy players that flop, did Bruce have more than his fair share? Plus of course, you could argue that even some of the hit signings were overpriced and therefore not a success financially?

[eFestivals]

TGT, I reckon you might be on a hiding to nothing for ralph to accept your argument.

He's ex-Utd, and who's bought a lot of ex-Utd players. There's been other managers with the same circumstances, who some have had a problem seeing the faults with.

I'm sure I'll be told that what I've said isn't true.

[kaosmark2]

TGT, I reckon you might be on a hiding to nothing for ralph to accept your argument.

He's ex-Utd, and who's bought a lot of ex-Utd players. There's been other managers with the same circumstances, who some have had a problem seeing the faults with.

I'm sure I'll be told that what I've said isn't true.

[eFestivals]

And until Bruce gets another job, Fergie will have trouble finding someone to shift the crap to.

Fergie's kid is still in management isn't he?

[kaosmark2]

Fergie's kid is still in management isn't he?

[Ed209]

Euro 2012 groups

Group A: Poland, Greece, Russia, Czech Republic.

Group B: Netherlands, Denmark, Germany, Portugal.

Group C: Spain, Italy, Republic of Ireland, Croatia.

Group D: Ukraine, Sweden, France, England.

Thoughts? Some tasty games in there. Germany - Netherlands in particular, England - France, Spain - Italy. Group A is a bit of a joke, Group B is a real humdinger, ROI have a bitch of a group, England have a reasonable group but I can see them making a total pigs ear of it.

Edited December 2, 2011 by Ed209

[pink_triangle]

I think englands is the most evenly matched group. A lot of the media were hoping England to draw Ukraine but from memory they have a very good home record. I personally think group b is the most predictable, Portugal aren't the team they once were. I see the dutch and Germans getting through easily.

[ralph250]

TGT, I reckon you might be on a hiding to nothing for ralph to accept your argument.

He's ex-Utd, and who's bought a lot of ex-Utd players. There's been other managers with the same circumstances, who some have had a problem seeing the faults with.

I'm sure I'll be told that what I've said isn't true.

[ralph250]

according to that Wilson article a negative net spend and reduction in the wagebill,

-------

by the way, I'm just going off his word. Always a bit sceptical as unsure when people cite this whether going on headline fees or have looked at the accounts which would include all the associated costs, signing on fees etc. The Swissramble article though does show £14m net coming in, in the past financial year.

An illustration.

Published on Rafa Benitez's personal site, a blog about Rafa from one his analysts on his technical staff.

"Therefore, we prefer to talk about net spend on signings which, after the sale of Torres and Mascherano, will amount to about £4 million, although without having access to the official figures. As I said before, the figures are there to be analysed but to do it correctly and clearly, you have to take in to account all the circumstances"

http://www.rafabenit...da=35&idioma=in

Edited December 2, 2011 by ralph250

[ralph250]

I think englands is the most evenly matched group. A lot of the media were hoping England to draw Ukraine but from memory they have a very good home record. I personally think group b is the most predictable, Portugal aren't the team they once were. I see the dutch and Germans getting through easily.

[pink_triangle]

A lot of people calling group b the group of death but I think its swings and roundabouts. The teams in group b get the easiest quarter finals. You can lose a group game and win a tournament as Spain did. You lose a knockout and your out. To get an easy knockout game can give a team a huge advantage.