Football 2010-2011

[ralph250]

Been busy last couple days so didn't get to comment on the Arsenal game.

Disagree with a fair amount of what you've put Neil.

How poor Utd were was shown by the impact of Giggs at the end.

[ampersand]

neyl, you just got your arse handed to you on a plate there

[eFestivals]

Been busy last couple days so didn't get to comment on the Arsenal game.

Disagree with a fair amount of what you've put Neil.

Poor attacking, but certainly not a poor performance. The players worked the gameplan to a tee

In which case much the same can be said about Arsenal. They had poor defending to match Utd's poor attacking, and attacking to match Utd's defending (as shown by more of the match played in Utd's half).

And Arsenal's players certainly worked the gameplan to a tee, because the different tactics from Wenger this tiome around were glaringly obvious.

Where Arsenal fell down was by being a shit version that turned up that day, by not being able to make a decent pass when it counted (and that was sod all to do with anything Utd were doing, as shown by the space the player had when making that pass to nothing).

otherwise Fergie wouldn't have waited until the 85th minute to make a change. To be fair aswell, pretty expected that Giggs could make an improved attacking impact in the last 5 minutes considering fresh legs and Arsenal looking for the equaliser will be pushing men further forward and as such leave more spaces to exploit.

Yet the other subs with fresh legs didn't make that impact. So it was more than just fresh legs.

Disagree with that. Think we were certainly going for the win.

You what?

Winning normally requires a team to get into the opposition's half. Utd barely did, and when they did it was nearly always just two players.

The strategy for first half was very high intensity pressing in the hope of getting the first goal.

You could claim far more pressing for the 2nd half. I think you need glasses.

Fair few early breaks were cut short with tactical fouling

something Utd never do of course.

Utd are the masters at it.

[eFestivals]

Overall Utd had the greater cutting edge

that I don't disagree with.

But it's the result of Arsenal having just about none in the final third, rather than because Utd were anything like prolific.

As Steve says, Arsenal had the Chamakh rebound following VDS failing to push Nasri's effort around the post. And for clearcut chances that was pretty much it.

again, nothing I disagree with.

But a more normal Arsenal isn't going to happen with the tactics Arsenal employed and how stretched the game was.

Bullshit. Which other game this season has seen Arsenal misplacing so many passes when under no pressure at all?

Arsenal played very different tactics to their normal way with Utd in recent years, but that absolutely nothing to do with how poorly many players performed on the night, and nor did what Utd players were doing.

Utd can claim credit for good defending (tho with an eight man defence as they had it's less hard to defend that well) which is the normal score when playing Arsenal, but elsewhere on the pitch they had a bad night for Utd.

You say United didn't do anything, but to me we played very direct as a tactic to keep Arsenal's 4231 stretched, their team fragmented between the attacking unit and the defensive unit without the link between.

Arsenal passes completed for last 5 games:

that says nothing of what the passes were. Not all passes are of equal value.

Was it pretty to the neutral, no. Was it a incredibly disciplined performance, yes.

Agreed - by both sides. It's the only thing both sides did well at all night.

Neither side committed to attacking at the same rate as they've both done in their games against each other in recent seasons. In those previous games Wenger was VERY naive in playing that way because it works to Utd's strengths and so advantage, and for this game he smarted up. I'm in no way saying he'd have won with those tactics the other night had a better Arsenal turned up, but I do believe that it gave Arsenal a far greater chance of not losing than if he'd have played in the way he's played previously.

Scrappy game, both sides cancelling each other out to a degree but as above think overall we edged it enough to deserve the result personally. Fair play if you feel different.

if any team deserved to win then it was Utd because they managed far more with real threats to goal - but even so those threats were very poor without a decent shot all night, and it was a fluke (of sorts) of a goal (tho well taken by Park all the same). Given how poorly both performed in front of goal - and on the rest of the pitch - I'd say a draw would have been fairer.

As for his [Nasri's] passing, it wasn't as bad as you're making out.

Oh, it wasn't just Nasri at it - Song, Wilshere, Arshavin and others all played too many completely duff passes to nothing. But of those doing it it's Nasri who generated the most disappointment because of the form he's been in.

[TheGayTent]

That's an irrelevance, and its irrelevance is the whole bleeding point!

He wasn't choosing his tactics to get the best result from any match. He pretty much explicitly stated that.

He was choosing his tactics because he wanted to play football in a particular manner. Choosing to play the game that way in every game meant that he lost points he needn't have lost.

[eFestivals]

The only irrelevance is your continual attempts at passing off your opinion as fact.

How is me repeating pretty much what he said himself MY opinion?

[TheGayTent]

How is me repeating pretty much what he said himself MY opinion?

[eFestivals]

Go troll with someone else.

I really don't understand what enjoyment you gain out of demonstrating your stupidness time after time on this thread.

Goodnight.

It's trolling to say what Mowbray said himself, is it?

What is stupid here is your dismissal of his words having any relevance to what he chose to do.

[TheGayTent]

It's trolling to say what Mowbray said himself, is it?

What is stupid here is your dismissal of his words having any relevance to what he chose to do.

[jump]

Champions League draw is done...

Copenhagen v Chelsea

Marseille v Manchester United

Lyon v Real Madrid

Arsenal v Barcelona

Valencia v Schalke

AC Milan v Tottenham

Inter v Bayern Munich

Roma v Shakhtar Donetsk

[ampersand]

how did i know spurs would get milan. should have put a bet on.

real madrid v lyon? is that not a regular fixture now?

chelsea will be delighted. and awaits the bollocks journalism about total football, when infact barca will tear arsenal a new one.

[spwan-of-the-devil]

how did i know spurs would get milan. should have put a bet on.

real madrid v lyon? is that not a regular fixture now?

chelsea will be delighted. and awaits the bollocks journalism about total football, when infact barca will tear arsenal a new one.

[luckysalt]

Ha thats Arsenal out

Spurs stand a chance if Bale is on form!

[The Nal]

Ha thats Arsenal out

Spurs stand a chance if Bale is on form!

[5co77ie]

Champions League draw is done...

Copenhagen v Chelsea

Marseille v Manchester United

Lyon v Real Madrid

Arsenal v Barcelona

Valencia v Schalke

AC Milan v Tottenham

Inter v Bayern Munich

Roma v Shakhtar Donetsk

Edited December 17, 2010 by 5co77ie

[luckysalt]

I'll keep updating Europa League

Draw of 32 teams

Napoli v Villareal

Rangers v Sporting Lisbon

AC Sparta v Liverpool

Anderlecht v Ajax

Lech Poznan v SG Braga

Besiktas JK v Dynamo Kyiv

FC Basel v Spartak Moscow

BSC Young Boys v FC Zenit

Aris Thessaloniki v Man City

Paok FC v CSKA Moscow

Sevilla v Porto

Rubin Kazan v FC Twente

Lille v PSV

Benfica v Stuttgart

FC Bate Borisov v PSG

FC Metalist Kharkiv v Bayern Leverkusen

Draw of 16

Benfica v Stuttgart V FC Bate Borisov v PSG

Besiktas JK v Dynamo Kyiv V Aris Thessaloniki v Man City

Rubin Kazan v FC Twente V BSC Young Boys v FC Zenit

Paok FC v CSKA Moscow V Sevilla v Porto

Lille v PSV V Rangers v Sporting Lisbon

FC Metalist Kharkiv v Bayern Leverkusen V Napoli v Villareal

Anderlecht v Ajax V FC Basel v Spartak Moscow

AC Sparta v Liverpool V Lech Poznan v SG Braga

Edited December 17, 2010 by luckysalt

[ralph250]

So could be Chelese v Man U, Real v Barca, in the next round, with the winners of those playing each other in the semi finals. Tottenham's side of the draw looks an easier option.

[eFestivals]

Stop attempting to muddy the waters, it isn't working, people can see right through you.

What you actually said was:

The bit highlighted is your opinion. Not a fact.

IMO it's probably not a very educated opinion either...

No, it's not a fact - but only to someone who has the opinion that players cannot be instructed or trained.

It is a fact to someone who believes that someone who can kick a ball about in one manner is also able to kick a ball about in another manner. Given that just about every player has more than one club in their career and all teams do things in different ways, for all players who have more than one club it is an indisputable fact.

After all, had WBA tasked every player with defending - rather than trying to play the other team off the pitch (sort of) Arsenal stylee (which the players weren't good enough to do) - then things would have been played tighter.

Mowbray (essentially) said he wasn't interested in playing that way. He said he had a philosophy about how the game should be played and that he'd stick to it even if that meant they'd lose more games than they otherwise would. And he did.

I guess the education most needed is for you - of what Mowbray said, and of the benefits of instruction and training to players.

And then it might be good if you passed them on to Mr Grant.

[eFestivals]

Regarding the Champions League draw ....

I can't be bothered to go look it up somewhere cos I can't remember who finished where, but is it the case that the winner of each group gets to play the 2nd leg of the last 16 tie at home, while the runner up gets it the other way around?

[funkymp]

how did i know spurs would get milan. should have put a bet on.

real madrid v lyon? is that not a regular fixture now?

chelsea will be delighted. and awaits the bollocks journalism about total football, when infact barca will tear arsenal a new one.

[worm]

It is a fact to someone who believes that someone who can kick a ball about in one manner is also able to kick a ball about in another manner.

[TheGayTent]

No, it's not a fact

[Steve P]

Had a feeling that it'd be Barca again. We won't take it so easy on them this time

[eFestivals]

Hurrah!

Yeah, it's that simple. You can just tell and train players to behave in a completely different way to that which

1) They are used to; and

2) They're natural doing

Your thought process is all wrong.

Mowbray had as much chance at making West Brom successful at playing a defensive style of football with the players he had at his disposal, as you would have been making Steve Bould a ball playing centre half or Ali Benarbia a tough tackling midfielder that tracks back.

So you think that an eight man defence with four of those players playing slightly out of their comfort zone but four of them not would be less effective than a not-very-good-anyway four man defence played in their comfort zone?

Then I do wonder why the likes of Man Utd in some games play with a eight man defence but in other games don't - all the while using the same players. Perhaps you should wonder about that too.

[eFestivals]

They were comfortable playing as they were, while experimenting half way through a season when you're not as good as the opposition would be a massive, nigh on suicidal, risk.

the defence would still be just as comfortable, and they'd also have another four players to help them. Yeah, that'd make them worse.

And along with that, there was suicide anyway. There would have been absolutely nothing to lose by trying something different!!!

Your opinion is that they could do all of this because you believe that this exceptionally difficult task is merely the execution of ''kicking a ball about in a different manner''.

He's right, your opinion isn't very educated if this is what you think.

Football at it's base is about kicking a ball. Working to one set of tactics they kick a ball about; working to another set of tactics they kick a ball about in a different manner.

Care to tell me where that's wrong?

Yes, it's a simplification, but it's still very much accurate.