Football 2010-2011

[eFestivals]

What? All four of them?

He left Ipswich to go to the Premiership, left Charlton after they were relegated when he was the highest scoring Englisman before the 2006 World Cup the season before, and left Spurs when he was their top scorer when they got £10million+ for him. Proper journey-man stuff.

Yep - Spurs sold their top scorer when they were a team on the up. That says something to me, if not you.

There's a reason why he's not played for the top sides or been an instant England choice despite his scoring record, and that's because his playing style doesn't suit a strong team.

[ampersand]

Yep - Spurs sold their top scorer when they were a team on the up. That says something to me, if not you.

There's a reason why he's not played for the top sides or been an instant England choice despite his scoring record, and that's because his playing style doesn't suit a strong team.

[worm]

he's playing no better this season.

[ralph250]

Ngog's got 18 in total Steve. 3 in his first year, 8 last year, and 7 this year, though only Arsenal in the prem this year. Rest is Rabotnicki x3, Steuau x2, and Northampton.

isn't it the case that until fairly recently Ngog had the best scores-per-minute-played stats of any Prem player?

(I could be wrong, but I read that somewhere once, perhaps even on here).

Edited November 15, 2010 by ralph250

[Cardboard Box City]

Yep - Spurs sold their top scorer when they were a team on the up. That says something to me, if not you.

[eFestivals]

If you score goals you score goals.

Seems like Sven, McLaren & Pat all thought different, as did 'Arry.

I guess that's just a coincidence, and them and me know nothing.

[Cardboard Box City]

Seems like Sven, McLaren & Pat all thought different, as did 'Arry.

I guess that's just a coincidence, and them and me know nothing.

[eFestivals]

So what you're saying is that he's not as good as Ngog who warms the bench for Liverpool is because he doesn't get his game for England?

Furthermore, because of this, it proves you're opinion to be on the level with SGE, Steve McClaren and Cappello, who you regularly proclaim to know nothing and their credentials to be meaningless (despite knowing very little about their credentials I might add)?

Good stuff so far.

I'm pointing out that despite Bent's record, there's plenty of footballing people out there who don't think he's all that.

I've not said that Sven or Pat know nothing. I've said they're limited, and compared Pat to Sven.

Do I think they're also limited by their view of Bent? I'd say not - but perhaps because, for whatever reasons, we've concluded the same.

You on the other hand have your view that he's a top top player, but not really anything aside from your view to back that up. Cos has Bent played for a top side? - nope. Is Bent an international regular? - nope. So that means that those at the top end of pro football have a different view to you.

Good stuff so far.

As for Ngog, we've yet to see. Only when there's something to see do you have good grounds to dismiss him completely.

Edited November 15, 2010 by eFestivals

[Benj]

You can have Ngog if you want - and then watch him outscore Bent, cos he would.

[The Nal]

Had to laugh at Inter losing again yesterday, Rafa is truely bringing his special magic to the san siro

[Cardboard Box City]

You on the other hand have your view that he's a top top player, but not really anything aside from your view to back that up.

[eFestivals]

You've been talking sense in the main here, that's just cost you all your credibility though.

Nah, I don't think I have.

Ngog would, I reckon, be best in a team that broke quickly from the back, which gave him the time and space to use his pace - just like Bent does, as it happens.

And I reckon that with the extra time to be composed on the ball (rather than trying to one-kick into the net, or turn a defender in a cramped box) for a team that plays that way, he'd knock them in at a similar rate to Bent.

He won't get the chance to play that way at Liverpool, so he'd have to move to a lesser Prem club for me to be proven as right, which might never happen.

[eFestivals]

When did I say 'top top player'? I said 'quality', and scoring as many as he does where ever he has been certainly indicates this. You're coming across as a cerial big four watcher.

none of which addresses anything that I said. I guess you're agreeing with me now, and just having a pointless niggle.

Weren't you saying the other day that people only go on about players who play for big teams, and gave the example of Johan Cryuff as someone who was big before he went to a big team (Barce) but then it was pointed out that he'd already won the European Cup twice with Ajax before that?

I knew he'd already won the European cup with Ajax, I even alluded to it with my post. What I did get wrong was when he'd moved to Barca - it was earlier than I'd thought. But I was working from the memories of an nine year old who'd watched it at the time 35+ years ago rather than a nine year old who'd read it in a book 15 years ago.

But anyway ... none of which addresses anything that I said. I guess you're agreeing with me now, and just having a pointless niggle.

I don't recall Ian Wright or Robbie Fowler setting the world alight for England?

True. But they did set top teams alight, which Bent hasn't.

[Benj]

Nah, I don't think I have.

Ngog would, I reckon, be best in a team that broke quickly from the back, which gave him the time and space to use his pace - just like Bent does, as it happens.

And I reckon that with the extra time to be composed on the ball (rather than trying to one-kick into the net, or turn a defender in a cramped box) for a team that plays that way, he'd knock them in at a similar rate to Bent.

He won't get the chance to play that way at Liverpool, so he'd have to move to a lesser Prem club for me to be proven as right, which might never happen.

[eFestivals]

While I reckon, like most Liverpool fans I know, that he'd be utter dog shite and certainly not in Darren Bent's league.

They'd be the same Liverpool fans who were slating Lucas I reckon.

Anyway, not a fan, so I've nothing to gain out of thinking him as another Bent. I just happen to think he would be.

[The Nal]

They'd be the same Liverpool fans who were slating Lucas I reckon.

Anyway, not a fan, so I've nothing to gain out of thinking him as another Bent. I just happen to think he would be.

[Benj]

They'd be the same Liverpool fans who were slating Lucas I reckon.

Anyway, not a fan, so I've nothing to gain out of thinking him as another Bent. I just happen to think he would be.

[Cardboard Box City]

none of which addresses anything that I said.

Edited November 15, 2010 by Cardboard Box City

[pink_triangle]

I can see both sides of the argument here. In my opinion bent is one of the best players at what he does, ie prolific mid table premiership striker. I would consider him in a similar class to kevin phillips or yakubu at their peaks. However the fact he hasnt played for a big club definitely counts against him as it stops us being able to judge him in the champions league environment. I think at a top 5 club he would be a complete flop, so would be better off staying where he is. I would however rate him ahead of ngog untill ngog can prove himself over a season.

[Cardboard Box City]

I would consider him in a similar class to kevin phillips or yakubu at their peaks.

Edited November 15, 2010 by Cardboard Box City

[worm]

Premier League Golden Boot and European Golden Shoe 1999-2000 winner Kevin Phillips is that?

[ralph250]

PIKS cleared 100% by monday. No money coming out of the club supposedly.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-11-15/manchester-united-to-pay-off-353-million-of-soccer-team-s-corporate-debt.html

mind-numbing thread

/index.php?showtopic=151745&st=60">http://www.efestivals.co.uk/forums/index.php?showtopic=151745&st=60

[eFestivals]

Its quite hard to when you change the scope of what you say. Darren Bent has a record that proves he is a quality player, scoring goals for fun - Ngog doesn't. I can't see why you're claiming that to be considered a quality striker you need to play for a big club.

Forlan hardly set the world alight at one of the biggest clubs in the world, yet he's one of the best strikers in the world. Obviously Bent is not in this world class level, but just because he doesn't play for a big club doesn't mean he's not a quality striker. Even Freddie Kanoute shows this.

If you think that scoring as many as he does and has done in the top league of English football isn't the mark of a quality striker then your view is akin to stuff that comes from people who think that if you're not a Ronaldo/Messi you must be shit.

Can I ask who you think is a decent striker outside of the top four or five clubs? Doesn't have to be in this country.

I've said he's decent enough. I'm not going to keep restating it.

But it remains the case that his playing style suits a weaker club more than a strong one, and the facts indicate that the pros at the top end of the game think the same, because if it was only scoring record that counted he'd be playing for a major club and an England regular.

[pink_triangle]

Premier League Golden Boot and European Golden Shoe 1999-2000 winner Kevin Phillips is that?

Edited November 16, 2010 by pink_triangle

[ampersand]

Kevin phillips was great at what he did but he is certainly not comparible to the premiership greats like henry, ronaldo, fowler, wright etc Its a good achievement to win the golden boot but lets not forget that marcus stewart once nearly won it, so its not the be all and end all. As for the european shoe, I think its a ridiculous award because I dont see how you can compare strikers playing against different defenders in different countries.

People can accuse me of being top 4 obsessed but when you look through football history the players that are remembered are the ones that did it for the bigger teams at the biggest stages. In modern day football you have to prove yourself in the champions league to be considered amongst the elite. To get in the champions league you have to attract the attention of the managers of the clubs who can get you there. its not only capello and mclaren who have ignored bent but the likes of ferguson, wenger, mancini, mourinio, ancelotti, benitez etc. Can they all be wrong? The likes of bent/phillips play a massive role at they clubs they are/were at but to think they could automatically do the same at a big club is wrong.