Football 2010-2011

[pink_triangle]

Obviously it's hard to compare this to the Konchesky deal with no idea of transfer fee yet. Any news on Liverpool getting a striker? Heard Trezeguet was supposedly contacted but assumed it was just rumours.

[jammy2211]

I'd agree with the Triangle here. Whilst there may be less risk with the signing of Konchesky to Bebe say, it's a very short term signing. United have a much longer term outlook with their signings and (in general) it's paid off for them.

[TheGayTent]

Depends what your aspirations are, I dont see Man U, Man City, Chelsea and Arsenal bidding for these types of player.

[eFestivals]

I disagree, Man Utd .... have actually produced some of their own squad player over recent years rather than having to buy them all.

Hmmmmmm ..... not many. Man Utd have a reputation of bring kids thru, but that's mostly based on the kids circa 1994. There's been few since.

In most cases, Fergie gives them a few games to give them a better sell-on price cos "they've played for Man Utd" (tho fewer managers are falling for this nowadays), and then ships them out.

Nearly all the kids that Man Utd fans have posted about on here over the years as great future prospects for Utd haven't made it at Utd.

(before the red mist descends for some, I'll point out that I'm aware that few other Prem clubs do any better at bringing kids thru. But they don't have the reputation for it that Utd have - I'm simply pointing out that that reputation doesn't really match the facts).

[eFestivals]

I'd agree with the Triangle here. Whilst there may be less risk with the signing of Konchesky to Bebe say, it's a very short term signing. United have a much longer term outlook with their signings and (in general) it's paid off for them.

It's perhaps paid off for them, but not via those players playing for Utd.

Utd tend to get a price that's more than the player is really worth, simply because they've had 30 minutes on the pitch for the Utd first team. There's quite a long list of these!! Few end up staying as a part of the squad.

[eFestivals]

Any news on Liverpool getting a striker? Heard Trezeguet was supposedly contacted but assumed it was just rumours.

There's rumours for loads of Prem clubs for Trezeguet.

I suspect that if Liverpool are going to get a striker it'll be dependant on Mascho being sold - at least that's looking half likely now, as Inter have supposedly made a bid. Meanwhile, Barca are getting their players doing the Fabregas thing again to try and force their pathetic bid thru.

But Woy seems strangely keen on Ngog (), and I read somewhere recently that it's thought he's going to give him a proper shot at things. Which would be mighty foolish I think.

[jammy2211]

There's rumours for loads of Prem clubs for Trezeguet.

I suspect that if Liverpool are going to get a striker it'll be dependant on Mascho being sold - at least that's looking half likely now, as Inter have supposedly made a bid. Meanwhile, Barca are getting their players doing the Fabregas thing again to try and force their pathetic bid thru.

But Woy seems strangely keen on Ngog (), and I read somewhere recently that it's thought he's going to give him a proper shot at things. Which would be mighty foolish I think.

[eFestivals]

After Zamora's turn around under Woy anything is possible, but I don't think he can afford to give N'gog that sort of time at Liverpool.

Doubt you can get a quality striker on Liverpools current budget though so he probably hasn't got a choice, unless as you say Masch raises them enough money.

There's rumours floating around that Liverpool are after Carlton Cole. I'd guess a player of his standard is about their limit spending wise, if they sell Mascho.

Sky have reported that Inter have bid £20M for Mascho, which is probably around the most he'll sell for right now. Whether that's close enough to what Liverpool are wanting I don't know.

The rumours of the Barca offer are IMO much more interesting. While they don't really much need a player like Hleb cos I can't see where he'd play, he was the most effective player in the Prem via the stats in his last season at Arsenal, so he'd defo bring something extra to the squad - and given the many statements he's made in the last 2 years about how he regrets leaving the Prem he'd quite possibly perform better than he did for Arsenal.

But just like Arsenal, what they really need are (if Mascho goes) at least two midfield holding types. It's there they're at their weakest, and if they get that bit sorted they can probably get by without another striker or left back.

[pink_triangle]

Indeed it depends on transfer fee, Konchesky is only going to be good for 2 or 3 seasons, but it's not like he's going to cost anywhere near £8 million (well I should hope not).

[eFestivals]

The thing is konchesky will have pretty much no resale value. Man Utd may be gambling paying 8 million for bebe. He may end up worthless, however he may end up worth 20 million pound. It depends whether you are willing to take the gamble. If liverpool want to get champions league they have to gamble. If they are happy to consolidate as a europa league team then it may be the right route to go

I disagree about gambling - it's a huge risk to an already underperforming and unsettled team.

Woy was appointed I think as a steadying hand for a team that don't have cash to throw around, and while Konchesky is an aging player (29 isn't he?), his game has been back on the up the last couple of seasons or so, which was of course with Woy as his manager.

With all things considered - lack of money for a top top left back, the price they'll pay for Kon (less than £5M, surely?), his performances for Woy at Fulham - I reckon he's a bit of a no-brainer, providing they get central midfield sorted out.

[jammy2211]

There's rumours floating around that Liverpool are after Carlton Cole. I'd guess a player of his standard is about their limit spending wise, if they sell Mascho.

Sky have reported that Inter have bid £20M for Mascho, which is probably around the most he'll sell for right now. Whether that's close enough to what Liverpool are wanting I don't know.

The rumours of the Barca offer are IMO much more interesting. While they don't really much need a player like Hleb cos I can't see where he'd play, he was the most effective player in the Prem via the stats in his last season at Arsenal, so he'd defo bring something extra to the squad - and given the many statements he's made in the last 2 years about how he regrets leaving the Prem he'd quite possibly perform better than he did for Arsenal.

But just like Arsenal, what they really need are (if Mascho goes) at least two midfield holding types. It's there they're at their weakest, and if they get that bit sorted they can probably get by without another striker or left back.

[jammy2211]

Around £3.5m for Konchesky is what I've read albeit that was on Wikipedia, couldn't find another source.

He's very good defensively and I can't point to many errors he's made at Fulham, but I don't really rate his game going forward which is what you'd expect the best clubs in the league to do with their wing backs. Still a far better player then anyone Liverpool have had in the position in recent memory.

[pink_triangle]

I disagree about gambling - it's a huge risk to an already underperforming and unsettled team.

[eFestivals]

They already have two holding type in Lucas and Poulsen, and I don't think Roy will play more then one at any one time from what I've seen of his time at Fulham and Liverpools first few matches. Obviously the jury is still out on Poulsen though but they've at least got cover there.

Lucas is *NOT* a holding midfielder - he's rubbish trying to do that. On the few occasions he's been allowed to play a more forward role he's looked a half decent player, and people suddenly realised that he's not just crap.

There's been only one instance I've seen where he played a holding role and was awesome (yes, really that good!) ... but that was playing with Mascho, and in a Chumps League match against probably not great opposition (I've forgotten who it was now). Outside of that one match, only ever rubbish.

To my mind Lucas would do well as the gets-forward-midfielder, in the sort of role Gerrard has had the last few seasons (but not under Woy it seems?). But he doesn't score goals which is a problem, and he's also at a club where someone else always got considered before him for that role when needed.

Whether Poulsen is able to be anywhere near as effective as Mascho is yet to be seen, but I suspect he'll be a few notches down. And I can't see Gerrard being dedicated enough to sitting back for him to be the 2nd there without it being too weak.

So they're probably stuffed.

Doing some sort of exchange with Barca could be interesting, very foolish of Liverpool if they take the £20m a few days before the transfer window shuts though.

Hleb's a great player, but he's not a player Liverpool really need.

As for the money, I guess it depends if they've already got something sounded out enough already. I would think a plan of sorts is in place.

[eFestivals]

Im not saying they should gamble. Im saying if their aim is to get a to 4 position (which many fans say it is) then the only way they can achieve this is to gamble. Maybe consilidating around 6th place is the best they can hope.

Nah, I don't think they're as far off being the real thing as some think. Their squad strength - on paper - isn't much different from all but shitty's (who are waaaay out in front - on paper - on everyone else) of the other top teams.

It only took the loss of one player for them to turn from almost title winners to shit, and while Alonso is a very good player it was more how his presence had them all gel together than him having exceptional skills.

So it's more the case of using the players that are there in a different way, or finding the right player to complete the jigsaw.

Having said all of that, I'm far from confident that their slide is going to be halted anytime soon.

[sifi]

My word, the Champions League draw is painful. Why they feel they have to give it some faux razamataz I really don't know. I'll never complain about the FA Cup draw again.

[pink_triangle]

Can see man utd, arsenal and chelsea all winning their groups comfortably. I cant see spurs getting through to the next round, wouldnt surprise me if they finish bottom.

[Cardboard Box City]

Group A

Inter Milan, Werder Bremen, Tottenham, FC Twente Bensons

Group B

Lyon, Benfica, Schalke, Hapoel Tel-Aviv

Group C

Manchester United, Valencia, Rangers, Bursaspor

Group D

Barcelona, Panathinaikos, FC Copenhagen, Rubin Kazan

Group E

Bayern Munich, AS Roma, Basel, CFR Cluj

Group F

Chelsea, Marseille, Spartak Moscow, Zilina

Group G

AC Milan, Real Madrid, Ajax, Auxerre

Group H

Arsenal, Shakhtar Donetsk, Braga, Partizan Belgrade

Arsenal have lucked out, Tottenham will have to be on their game or they'll be out, Barca will piss it and the Milan/Madrid/Ajax looks interesting.

[luckysalt]

w*nk

that is all

[jammy2211]

Arsenal vs Shakhtar is going to be a very very pretty set of matches.

Edited August 26, 2010 by jammy2211

[ampersand]

Arsenal vs Shakhtar is going to be a very very pretty set of matches.

[Steve P]

oh geez a dive eduardo, show wenger for the c**t what he is!

[ampersand]

Nowt like holding a grudge eh buddy

[eFestivals]

the guys a nob.

but less of a nob than the celtic fan who can see a clear dive when experts at UEFA can't.

[Cardboard Box City]

Enough of this shite.

European Super Cup tonight, Inter v Atletico Madrid, I dont think either has played a game yet.