Left field 2023

[Colorblindjames]

2 hours ago, Gnomicide said:

To me, Left Field is about what the left can do to make the world a better place, inviting Tories along to have a shouting match doesn't do that.

Now like it or not, agree with it or not, Streetling is part of the left. Given his current position, he's an important part of the left. Having him in a discussion with people who are very anti-privatisation and (I'm pretty certain) an audience that will back them up may be a good thing. Will what is discussed change his mind? I doubt it, but giving people who he may otherwise never talk to, the opportunity to put across their opposing view to him must be a good thing.

Streeting is not part of the left. 

[p.pete]

3 minutes ago, Colorblindjames said:

Streeting is not part of the left. 

Labour are not the union-friendly, left-leaning party that they are very happy for people to think of them as.

[Blisterpack]

4 minutes ago, Colorblindjames said:

Streeting is not part of the left. 

Streeting, Miliband, even Starmer, would all have been natural members of any of the Labour governments of the past 50 years.  Corbyn’s four years as leader shifted the frame in terms of what many on the left regard as ‘acceptable’ left wing. I prefer Labour politicians who are capable of winning general elections and providing the realistic and sustainable marginal gains to society that most people expect. 

[Blisterpack]

3 minutes ago, p.pete said:

Labour are not the union-friendly, left-leaning party that they are very happy for people to think of them as.

No. Right at this moment they are looking like an electable government by attracting the Tory voters that are needed for Labour to win. It’s is impossible in a conservative nation for a socialist party to actually win a majority. It’s like some people forget what the U.K. is actually like!

[stuie]

8 minutes ago, p.pete said:

Labour are not the union-friendly, left-leaning party that they are very happy for people to think of them as.

We might as well have another round of fun with the Tories then. 

Jesus.

[p.pete]

1 minute ago, stuie said:

We might as well have another round of fun with the Tories then. 

Jesus.

Absolutely not.  Chasing the tories is absurd though - what kind of country do you want?  Labour just have to be more competent than the tories and they'll win the next election easily - it's frustrating to see them swing merrily to the right when the bar is so low.  2010 David Cameron was more competent than Brown - fair enough, global disaster; 2015 Cameron was seen as more competent than Miliband - fair enough the man has two kitchens yet doesn't know how to eat a bacon sandwich (life is cruel) and Lib Dems softened perception of the previous government; 2017 Teresa May was seen as more competent than JC - yep, fair enough, moving on; 2019 Boris Johnson was seen as more competent than JC, again - ho hum.

Christ sake - people are sick to fuck with the Tories - if Keir Starmer thinks making himself look tory-light is the the way to go that could a) be a sign of great incompetence (say hello to Rishi Sunak as next tory election winner) and b) is massively depressing.  Stop the witch hunts, allow local areas to pick candidates they'll be excited to get behind, pick some policies that will hopefully fix the country for the better rather than for the rich, and don't settle for just trying to be a less bad version of the tories.  

[Gnomicide]

32 minutes ago, Colorblindjames said:

The is a similar incorrect argument that is made when climate change deniers are given the same profile/platform as climate scientists. 

It's entirely different. If it was the same, they would have someone there saying the NHS is perfectly fine and doesnt need fixing. He may be wrong about how it should be fixed but the discussion is "Can we save the NHS?"

32 minutes ago, Colorblindjames said:

Streeting is not part of the left. 

He's a shadow minister in the Labour Party, to most people the Labour Party are the left. You can complain all day about the current state of them, but they are the best chance we've got of getting shut of the Tories and and the very least, moving left.

[Colorblindjames]

41 minutes ago, Blisterpack said:

Streeting, Miliband, even Starmer, would all have been natural members of any of the Labour governments of the past 50 years.  Corbyn’s four years as leader shifted the frame in terms of what many on the left regard as ‘acceptable’ left wing. I prefer Labour politicians who are capable of winning general elections and providing the realistic and sustainable marginal gains to society that most people expect. 

Nope. Corbyn's brand of scando socialism was only attempting to shift the party back to where it was. These type of characters may have been front benchers in the past but not all at once. Even Blair's cabinet had a mix of left and centrist. Now we've got a bunch of right of centre potential front benchers. 

I prefer honest politicians. 

[Colorblindjames]

17 minutes ago, Gnomicide said:

It's entirely different. If it was the same, they would have someone there saying the NHS is perfectly fine and doesnt need fixing. He may be wrong about how it should be fixed but the discussion is "Can we save the NHS?"

He's a shadow minister in the Labour Party, to most people the Labour Party are the left. You can complain all day about the current state of them, but they are the best chance we've got of getting shut of the Tories and and the very least, moving left.

We don't save the NHS with privatisation of services. If you believe that you are an idiot and shouldn't be invited on the platform just like a climate change denier. 

Most people voted for Brexit. Most people isn't an argument for anything. A vote for Labour is a vote for more of the same. 

[stuie]

2 minutes ago, Colorblindjames said:

We don't save the NHS with privatisation of services. If you believe that you are an idiot and shouldn't be invited on the platform just like a climate change denier. 

Most people voted for Brexit. Most people isn't an argument for anything. A vote for Labour is a vote for more of the same. 

Not voting for labour means you'll get more Tories. 

And, as I understand it, Wes Streeting only wants private sector to be involved in R&D?

Is that not correct? 

 

[Colorblindjames]

4 minutes ago, stuie said:

Not voting for labour means you'll get more Tories. 

And, as I understand it, Wes Streeting only wants private sector to be involved in R&D?

Is that not correct? 

 

Voting labour means you'll get more tories. Maybe not as extreme but certainly Cameron-esq tory. 

[Gnomicide]

9 minutes ago, Colorblindjames said:

We don't save the NHS with privatisation of services. If you believe that you are an idiot and shouldn't be invited on the platform just like a climate change denier. 

Most people voted for Brexit. Most people isn't an argument for anything. A vote for Labour is a vote for more of the same. 

I'd love there to be a realistic alternative but there isn't one, at least not where I live. 

Tomorrow I can vote Tory, Lib Dem, Labour, Green or *checks notes* Freedom Alliance, Stop The Great Reset.

Only Labour or the Tories stand a chance and it's close. Simple choice.

[Colorblindjames]

29 minutes ago, Gnomicide said:

I'd love there to be a realistic alternative but there isn't one, at least not where I live. 

Tomorrow I can vote Tory, Lib Dem, Labour, Green or *checks notes* Freedom Alliance, Stop The Great Reset.

Only Labour or the Tories stand a chance and it's close. Simple choice.

It's the local elections. There must be loads of others and independents you can pick. 

[stuie]

40 minutes ago, Colorblindjames said:

It's the local elections. There must be loads of others and independents you can pick. 

My best chance of it not being Tory is Labour and the idea of Tory’s winning anything after the last few years makes me shudder. 

[anditmakesmesmile]

A vote for labour is not a vote for more of the same. People say this about Blair - that he was just a tory with a red rosette, that he was tory-lite etc. I think Blair was more revolutionary than people give him credit for these day. 
When Blair came to power what the Labour Party achieved was remarkable. We forget now. And it was left-of-centre politics. He introduced a minimum wage, he took a million children above the poverty line, he introduced RightStart and invested a massive amount in education, he introduced civil partnerships, he paved the way for peace in northern Ireland, he brought down hospital waiting lists, he cut rough sleeping by 75%. Everyone says now, that he was as right wing as David Cameron. But actually... its the other way round. The only way the conservatives got in was because Blair had moved the conversation to the left. Cameron had no choice but to start there. Cameron continued the gay rights journey, unthinkable from a Tory party twenty years earlier. He stuck with the minimum wage. Do you think Thatcher would have done?

Sadly Johnson, May, Truss etc have all taken the conversation back to the right. but a vote for Labour back in '97 wasnt a vote for 'Tory-lite' and it wont be again this time round.  

Im not a member of the Labour Party. But I think we all have to do whatever we can to let some grown ups back in charge, and this lot out. They are nothing short of evil.

Oh, and taking this post back to topic... one of my best Glastonbury memories was in Left Field.  Naomi Klein giving a talk and showing a film about a south american co-operative. 2002, I think . One of those right place, right time moments. 

[DeanoL]

Starmer has made it pretty clear there is no space for people of my political persuasion (hard left) in the Labour Party. So he can hardly expect me to vote for him. Simple as that unfortunately.

[DeanoL]

1 hour ago, anditmakesmesmile said:

 

Im not a member of the Labour Party. 

Plenty of those who were were told to fuck off so...

[stuie]

Here’s Jamie with an important message for today. 

 

[MEGATRONICMEATWAGON]

Prefer this message 😉

 

[stuie]

16 minutes ago, MEGATRONICMEATWAGON said:

Prefer this message 😉

 

Be the bigger man.

https://stopthetories.vote/

 

[MEGATRONICMEATWAGON]

4 minutes ago, stuie said:

Be the bigger man.

https://stopthetories.vote/

 

The most valuable msg of all.

[2019]

On 5/3/2023 at 6:30 PM, stuie said:

My best chance of it not being Tory is Labour and the idea of Tory’s winning anything after the last few years makes me shudder. 

The district I was Telling for today has an electorate of 6000. 2000 turned out last time there was a local vote, and only 5 votes split the top two parties.

The tories won by 5 votes. I'm hoping we overturned that today, but the numbers look low, which may favour the conservatives, roll on tomorrow.

[stuie]

49 minutes ago, 2019 said:

The district I was Telling for today has an electorate of 6000. 2000 turned out last time there was a local vote, and only 5 votes split the top two parties.

The tories won by 5 votes. I'm hoping we overturned that today, but the numbers look low, which may favour the conservatives, roll on tomorrow.

The worry is that the not Tory vote is so evenly split it makes the Tories the winners! 

[2019]

10 hours ago, stuie said:

The worry is that the not Tory vote is so evenly split it makes the Tories the winners! 

Early days, but the results look positive. I only had one guy who didn't have ID (and went home to get it). It will he interesting to see if the numbers can be crunched to understand if ID has cause wider issues.

[Gnomicide]

1 hour ago, 2019 said:

Early days, but the results look positive. I only had one guy who didn't have ID (and went home to get it). It will he interesting to see if the numbers can be crunched to understand if ID has cause wider issues.

Interesting that the only stories I've seen get widespread attention are those of old people being turned away.