news & politics:discussion

[Ozanne]

Just now, steviewevie said:

ok...maybe I was being a bit harsh on starmer...I just think they should be careful ruling too many things out...because they may have to do them at some point anyway...

I get that it’s frustrating but I think it’s key to bear in mind policy drops from this week that show they are committed to bringing us closer to the EU. 

Also bare in mind that everything Starmer says is planned, he’s so thorough that he leaves nothing to chance.

[Ozanne]

1 minute ago, zahidf said:

2 years in

 

"After the terrible state the Tories have left the country in, I have no choice but to do xxx to fix their mistakes"

I can see that, if anything that’s incredibly easy. 

[steviewevie]

"After the terrible state the Tories have left the country in, I have no choice but to sell of the NHS to fix their mistakes"

[steviewevie]

9 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

I get that it’s frustrating but I think it’s key to bear in mind policy drops from this week that show they are committed to bringing us closer to the EU. 

Also bare in mind that everything Starmer says is planned, he’s so thorough that he leaves nothing to chance.

yes, ok. I get it's a balancing act...signal about a closer arrangement with EU in the future but at same time warding of accusations of taking us back into or subservient to the EU.

[Nobody Interesting]

29 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

I can see that, if anything that’s incredibly easy. 

 

18 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

yes, ok. I get it's a balancing act...signal about a closer arrangement with EU in the future but at same time warding of accusations of taking us back into or subservient to the EU.

I find it incredibly sad that the 3rd most popular thing in a recent poll - 3rd only to a wealth tax and acting on climate change - is now so taboo that they can't even talk about it.................. I mean 62 OR MORE PERCENT OF THE PUBLIC WANT IT............ but no, can't talk about it cos................ well, some easily fooled group will throw their toys out the pram and vote Tory again.

Whatever happen to politics that acted on the most popular things rather than rn and hid from them?

It is f**kin g pathetic and if that is the way this country is heading then I might leave and go live in Europe............................ oh wait a sec, I can't do that now can I.

 

Rant over

Edited September 22, 2023 by Nobody Interesting

[Crazyfool01]

24 minutes ago, Nobody Interesting said:

 

I find it incredibly sad that the 3rd most popular thing in a recent poll - 3rd only to a wealth tax and acting on climate change - is now so taboo that they can't even talk about it.................. I mean 62 OR MORE PERCENT OF THE PUBLIC WANT IT............ but no, can't talk about it cos................ well, some easily fooled group will throw their toys out the pram and vote Tory again.

Whatever happen to politics that acted on the most popular things rather than rn and hid from them?

It is f**kin g pathetic and if that is the way this country is heading then I might leave and go live in Europe............................ oh wait a sec, I can't do that now can I.

 

Rant over

you ok there Alter ego ? 

[Ozanne]

35 minutes ago, Nobody Interesting said:

 

I find it incredibly sad that the 3rd most popular thing in a recent poll - 3rd only to a wealth tax and acting on climate change - is now so taboo that they can't even talk about it.................. I mean 62 OR MORE PERCENT OF THE PUBLIC WANT IT............ but no, can't talk about it cos................ well, some easily fooled group will throw their toys out the pram and vote Tory again.

Whatever happen to politics that acted on the most popular things rather than rn and hid from them?

It is f**kin g pathetic and if that is the way this country is heading then I might leave and go live in Europe............................ oh wait a sec, I can't do that now can I.

 

Rant over

That is the sad state of affairs in this country and all the time there’s a risk that we can have majority Tory governments then it’ll never change. 

[Neil]

2 hours ago, Ozanne said:

It’s ultimately why Labour try not to say anything on Brexit. They can’t say they want to head towards rejoin as they get accused of betraying the beloved Brexit and they can’t say they won’t rejoin as the Rejoin crowd start screaming.

Best thing for them to do is saying nothing and slide a few points into the manifesto. 

its no so much about 'betraying brexit' its mostly about dismissing a democratic vote.

[Crazyfool01]

1 minute ago, Neil said:

its no so much about 'betraying brexit' its mostly about dismissing a democratic vote.

does a democratic vote become less of one when influenced by Russia and Massive lies that are now obvious to most ? 

[Neil]

3 minutes ago, Crazyfool01 said:

does a democratic vote become less of one when influenced by Russia and Massive lies that are now obvious to most ? 

we cant start deciding what are the  legitimate reasons for a voting choice.

[steviewevie]

22 minutes ago, Neil said:

its no so much about 'betraying brexit' its mostly about dismissing a democratic vote.

true.

So maybe they could have it in their manifesto for another democratic vote.

[Neil]

47 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

true.

So maybe they could have it in their manifesto for another democratic vote.

i think that's a much less popular idea than rejoining... all the division around it again.

[steviewevie]

8 minutes ago, Neil said:

i think that's a much less popular idea than rejoining... all the division around it again.

I meant...have rejoin (or closer alignment or whatever) in their manifesto.

[steviewevie]

not another referendum. Never again.

[Rufus Gwertigan]

4 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

I meant...have rejoin (or closer alignment or whatever) in their manifesto.

I'm a remainer but that would put me off. You run into the risk of endless referendum. One every 40 or 50 years seems fair to me (roughly what we have had so far)

Edited September 22, 2023 by Rufus Gwertigan

[Neil]

He'll Never tell us what to eat. Eat nowt to help out .

[steviewevie]

4 minutes ago, Rufus Gwertigan said:

I'm a remainer but that would put me off. You run into the risk of endless referendum. One every 40 or 50 years seems fair to me (roughly what we have had so far)

No..not a referendum...it is in the manifesto to do whatever...no more people's bloody votes bloody direct democracy bollocks....stick to boring old representative democracy.

[Rufus Gwertigan]

Off topic a bit but think the UK needs to put to the vote the independence of its parts before even thinking the EU. The Irish had a skewed referendum but many Nationalists boycotted. We saw Scotland, that wouldn't fit in my time frame but things have changed dramatically. What about the Welsh or even the English?

 

[Neil]

35 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

I meant...have rejoin (or closer alignment or whatever) in their manifesto.

manefesto iasn't single issue explicit explicit like out was

[steviewevie]

29 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

No..not a referendum...it is in the manifesto to do whatever...no more people's bloody votes bloody direct democracy bollocks....stick to boring old representative democracy.

If things don't improve under labour in Scotland I can see SNP coming back and another referendum. N Ireland feels inevitable. Wales nah. And you think England will have a vote whether to leave the UK?!

[steviewevie]

14 minutes ago, Rufus Gwertigan said:

Off topic a bit but think the UK needs to put to the vote the independence of its parts before even thinking the EU. The Irish had a skewed referendum but many Nationalists boycotted. We saw Scotland, that wouldn't fit in my time frame but things have changed dramatically. What about the Welsh or even the English?

 

My last post was supposed to be a reply to this btw

[Rufus Gwertigan]

1 minute ago, steviewevie said:

If things don't improve under labour in Scotland I can see SNP coming back and another referendum. N Ireland feels inevitable. Wales nah. And you think England will have a vote whether to leave the UK?!

Did you not know the English are the boss?

I'm from Hull. My family are from Glasgow. When I joined up it came up about my families membership of the Orange Lodge. It got really weird. 

I see myself as a Yorkshireman although I have the right to wear a tartan. The family take the piss of my accent, the Hull accent is unique.

No idea what I am talking about apart from Jocks and Micks and Taff's wanting decent priced coffee 

 

[Rufus Gwertigan]

I think my point nationalism is a thing. There is nationalism without Nazisim

[steviewevie]

29 minutes ago, Rufus Gwertigan said:

I think my point nationalism is a thing. There is nationalism without Nazisim

Wanting independence type of nationalism is not the same as the nazi version that was also supremacist, racist,and violent. In fact SNP would like an independent Scotland to be internationalist and join the EU.

[Neil]

45 minutes ago, Rufus Gwertigan said:

I think my point nationalism is a thing. There is nationalism without Nazisim

not in the snp's Scotland.

there's a great article at wings at the moment about what will be proscribed views in the snp's indy Scotland.

https://wingsoverscotland.com/the-news-that-isnt-fit-to-print/

Edited September 22, 2023 by Neil