Support Your Local Dairy Farm

[chewsavedlatin]

while that's true, a big part of the current price crash is a direct result of the EU sanctions against Russia, which used to take a fair bit of EU milk but isn't now, meaning that milk is now available to the rest of the market.

 

So while supply and demand applies, the demand has been artificially altered, and at some point in the future that lost demand will be restored.

 

If the supply was suddenly cut short and they could charge £10 a pint, they wouldn't carry on carry on selling it for a quid or whatever they deem a "fair price" at the moment.

 

The company I work for sells washing machines, and believe it or not we change prices twice a day to deal with exactly these issues. Its just how these things work. 

 

I agree with you on the coal thing, strange how that happens......

Edited August 12, 2015 by chewsavedlatin

[eFestivals]

The company I work for sells washing machines, and believe it or not we change prices twice a day to deal with exactly these issues. Its just how these things work.

Not quite. The price of washing machines hasn't suddenly been changed by the result of multi-national sanctions. It's not the same as normal market movements.

Yes, there's an over-supply of milk problem outside of those sanctions, but that's been hugely exacerbated by those sanctions.

Saying that the C.A.P. needs serious reforming isn't saying anything that anyone doesn't already know, but France is not going to let it happen anytime soon.

[chewsavedlatin]

Not quite. The price of washing machines hasn't suddenly been changed by the result of multi-national sanctions. It's not the same as normal market movements.

 

 

But the demand isn't there, so now its worth less. Like I said initially, they want the supermarkets to take the hit on margin so they don't.  It doesn't work like that.

[eFestivals]

But the demand isn't there, so now its worth less. Like I said initially, they want the supermarkets to take the hit on margin so they don't.  It doesn't work like that.

 

Or alternatively, the EU wants the farmers to take the hit of the EU's decision to implement sanctions.

 

There's not just the one way of looking at it.

 

And anyway, this is the food supply we're talking about here, an essential of life for everyone. Do we really want that to be fully-subject to market principles, where making people starve for profit is the ultimate capitalist outcome?

 

It's not chance that has people die of famine, it is the deliberate choice of capitalist principles.

[chewsavedlatin]

Or alternatively, the EU wants the farmers to take the hit of the EU's decision to implement sanctions.

 

There's not just the one way of looking at it.

 

And anyway, this is the food supply we're talking about here, an essential of life for everyone. Do we really want that to be fully-subject to market principles, where making people starve for profit is the ultimate capitalist outcome?

 

It's not chance that has people die of famine, it is the deliberate choice of capitalist principles.

 

Then the governments should increase the subsidies? Why are they going to the Supermarkets and not the government?

 

I get your point Re:food supply, but we have that same principle with water. Not that I agree with it.

Edited August 12, 2015 by chewsavedlatin

[Pinhead]

PMSL - no, it's not that.

The NFU *IS* the feckin' govt. It's an extension of the tory party.

 

Well it certainly has DEFRA in its pocket.

[jeffie]

Someone earlier referred to Daisy in the fields, the idyllic dairy farm picture. That ain't the truth though is it.

[Sawdusty surfer]

True, but plenty of farmers are down to their last £3M of assets whilst complaining about poverty.

 

The rest of us would be expected to sell off some assets to sustain ourselves. Farmers of both left and right seem to believe they should have a protected market, and that the value of their assets should also be protected.

 

If this were a convo about (say) British Coal, the raving right wingers would be screaming "shut them down". It doesn't happen with farmers, strangely.

^ This

[Sawdusty surfer]

The NFU *IS* the feckin' govt. It's an extension of the tory party.

 

^ And this.

[Sawdusty surfer]

But I do like the NFU for crazily cheap insurance on old commercial vehicles

[JBarbour]

[jeffie]

http://freefromharm.org/dairyfacts/

 

This is the other issue of course.

[Sawdusty surfer]

One of the main problems for British dairy farmers is that shops/consumers will opt for cheaper imported milk and not worry about supporting British milk producers.

 

   How many of the very same British dairy farmers buy imported tractors because they are cheaper?

   New Holland still make tractors in the UK. Hmmmm.

 

 And do those farmers all drive around in Landrovers, or might they just be seen in a Jap 4x4 instead?

Edited August 17, 2015 by Sawdusty Surfer

[Teddington]

One of the main problems for British dairy farmers is that shops/consumers will opt for cheaper imported milk and not worry about supporting British milk producers.

 

   How many of the very same British dairy farmers buy imported tractors because they are cheaper?

   New Holland still make tractors in the UK. Hmmmm.

 

 And do those farmers all drive around in Landrovers, or might they just be seen in a Jap 4x4 instead?

 

Some very valid points.

 

I am torn on the issue.  Part of me thinks "let the market decide" because fundamentally I believe in it's workings.   Another part of me thinks that food security is such an important issue that it cannot be left soley to the market.

 

One thing is for sure, the farmers were not complaining about the free market price 5 years ago when demand from China sent dairy prices through the roof.

 

Overall though, I will be paying the extra 10p or whatever it is for the milk that gives the farmers a "fair" price.  Not logical I know, but I feel that we should support the production of fresh, non-UHT milk in this country.

[Sawdusty surfer]

Crikey.....Teddington and I agree on something!  

[eFestivals]

Crikey.....Teddington and I agree on something!  

 

Not really.

 

Teddington would support those farmers running away with the big money a few years ago, without that big money counting back against the poor money now. Profits are to be taken and spent, not held back to cover the lesser years.

 

And Teddington would support the free-market spending of those farmers, where the farmers buy from abroad whilst expecting the rest of the British public to buy British.

 

And finally .... he's happy to help the farmers, but only farmers - the rural wing of the tory party. Would he pay extra for fuel to support the miners? Would he fuck.

[Guest]

Some very valid points.

 

I am torn on the issue.  Part of me thinks "let the market decide" because fundamentally I believe in it's workings.   Another part of me thinks that food security is such an important issue that it cannot be left soley to the market.

 

One thing is for sure, the farmers were not complaining about the free market price 5 years ago when demand from China sent dairy prices through the roof.

 

Overall though, I will be paying the extra 10p or whatever it is for the milk that gives the farmers a "fair" price.  Not logical I know, but I feel that we should support the production of fresh, non-UHT milk in this country.

 

How about energy and transport. Are these not just as important issues? If so, should these be left solely to market forces? Sounds like you might advocating a touch of nationalisation there Teddy. 

Edited August 20, 2015 by Ommadawn

[Teddington]

How about energy and transport. Are these not just as important issues? If so, should these be left solely to market forces? Sounds like you might advocating a touch of nationalisation there Teddy. 

 

If the rail network could be run EFFICIENTLY without public sector workers taking the piss (as they used to do under British Rail) I would be happy to see it nationalised.

 

Similary with energy.  If the miners hadn't held the country to ransom in the 1970's and attempted to do so again in the 1980's, sat around a table sensibly, without the ludite anachronistic element, they could have agreed a sensible medium/long term strategy which would have left SOME (economic) mines open today.  I would be all for that.  I wouldn't be all for giving into blackmail, and throwing the taxpayers money at uneconomic mines just because some miner thinks he ought to have a job for life.

[Teddington]

Not really.

 

Teddington would support those farmers running away with the big money a few years ago, without that big money counting back against the poor money now. Profits are to be taken and spent, not held back to cover the lesser years.

 

And Teddington would support the free-market spending of those farmers, where the farmers buy from abroad whilst expecting the rest of the British public to buy British.

 

And finally .... he's happy to help the farmers, but only farmers - the rural wing of the tory party. Would he pay extra for fuel to support the miners? Would he fuck.

 

You seem to know a lot about me, or at least think you do.

 

Not sure where you get point 1 from, especially as I posted that they didn't complain when prices were high 2 posts back.  A very odd statement.

 

 

I also agreed with Ommadawn regarding his "buying foreign cars and playing the patriotism card".  So that's your point 2 scuppered as well.

 

You are only correct on point 3, though for entirely the wrong reason.  I wouldn't support paying extra to help the miners for reasons posted above.  The only reason I would pay extra is that I value fresh milk, something that is a very "British" thing, and wouldn't want to see it threatened.

[Guest]

You seem to know a lot about me, or at least think you do.

 

Not sure where you get point 1 from, especially as I posted that they didn't complain when prices were high 2 posts back.  A very odd statement.

 

 

I also agreed with Ommadawn regarding his "buying foreign cars and playing the patriotism card".  So that's your point 2 scuppered as well.

 

You are only correct on point 3, though for entirely the wrong reason.  I wouldn't support paying extra to help the miners for reasons posted above.  The only reason I would pay extra is that I value fresh milk, something that is a very "British" thing, and wouldn't want to see it threatened.

 

 I didn't make that point.

[jeffie]

Oh God, he's back.

[Guest]

Oh God, he's back.

 

Just rejoice at the news.

[Teddington]

 I didn't make that point.

 

No you didn't it was Sawdusty Surfer! Sorry!

[Teddington]

Oh God, he's back.

 

Guess who's back? back again?

 

Not for long though I suspect.  I am happy to debate politics but frankly a LOT of people on here are not.

 

Ho hum.

[eFestivals]

You seem to know a lot about me, or at least think you do.

 

Not sure where you get point 1 from, especially as I posted that they didn't complain when prices were high 2 posts back.  A very odd statement.

 

 

I also agreed with Ommadawn regarding his "buying foreign cars and playing the patriotism card".  So that's your point 2 scuppered as well.

 

You are only correct on point 3, though for entirely the wrong reason.  I wouldn't support paying extra to help the miners for reasons posted above.  The only reason I would pay extra is that I value fresh milk, something that is a very "British" thing, and wouldn't want to see it threatened.

I get my ideas of you from your previous "the free market rules, I'm a libertarian" stuff.

But it turns out that instead you're just a cultural fascist. At least we've cleared that up.