blocked IPs

[curiou2]

Neil

I think you are right to reject all suggestions that sound remotely like a conspiracy theory, but can you really be certain it is all down to luck? We have managed to get tickets this year and have managed to get tickets via seetickets every year. However for the past 4 Glastonburys, none of my group have managed to even get close to the booking form, except one. That same person this year managed to get 12 tickets, despite the fact his laptop crashed and he had to reboot it before getting the second batch of tickets. We all have similar setups; we were all attempting to buy tickets via our laptops on reasonably decent domestic broadband. We are based in London, Cheshire, Bath and Derby. The person who is based in Derby has succeeded every time. He has absolutely no technical knowledge whatsoever but has managed to buy everybody tickets and has not failed yet.

I guess what I am asking is, do you think luck can be this consistent or do you think he is lucky in that somehow he has luckily stumbled upon a configuration that works when buying glastonbury tickets? If it is the latter, then I think it is sensible and rational for people to investigate and irrational to put it all down to luck.

[Englishdragon]

They *could* rent the infrastructure. They don't need to buy it and maintain it all year. Where I work, we occasionally rent capacity.

That's a very interesting point about See maybe doing it at a loss. Perhaps you're right. My point is just that somebody, somewhere, is skimping on the IT provision for T-Day. Whether it's Eavis or See, it would be possible to do it a lot better. But of course you're right to say that it would also cost a lot more!

[carlosj]

Curiou2

I think he was lucky with his luck. I got tickets this year via F5 for 6 people, last year with the DNS backdoor, and the time before with a link someone posted. So I was lucky this year with getting in like most punters, and lucky getting in before most others previously, but a friend got our second batch of tickets yesterday, when he didn't get anywhere near the last 2 times.

Edited October 7, 2013 by carlosj

[eFestivals]

That's a very interesting point about See maybe doing it at a loss. Perhaps you're right.

No one knows for certain if they do it at a loss or not, as it's impossible to work out the direct costs to them of just one event amongst the costs of everything else they do.

But I know for certain that See's management don't see it as (directly) making them any money (because that's what they've told me, and I believe them), precisely because they've cut their fees to the bone to make Michael Eavis happy with the fees - and which is a saving in fees to the buyers.

[eFestivals]

Thanks, that's really useful. I think you've solved the "blocked IP" phenomenon on one post!

Nah. Really, nah.

Just because thousands of people didn't see a page (me included on some PCs all sharing one IP address) doesn't get to mean that it was because the IP was blocked.

The server(s) could not support all of the page requests it was getting.

It really is that simple, at least for the vast majority of cases if not ervery single one.

If See were blocking IPs yesterday then so was efestivals (where the exact same thing was experienced by some people, me included) - and I know for certain that efestivals was not. It was simply overloaded.

[eFestivals]

Neil

I think you are right to reject all suggestions that sound remotely like a conspiracy theory, but can you really be certain it is all down to luck?

I cannot be certain. There are perhaps very minor things (such as visiting the site in the previous few days, as someone has suggested on the basis of solid facts about some of the software used by See) that could make a very minor difference - and yet I did that and couldn't get on.

But yes, luck is the massively major factor. It's simply not possible for any system to support more users than it's able to support.

We have managed to get tickets this year and have managed to get tickets via seetickets every year. However for the past 4 Glastonburys, none of my group have managed to even get close to the booking form, except one. That same person this year managed to get 12 tickets, despite the fact his laptop crashed and he had to reboot it before getting the second batch of tickets. We all have similar setups; we were all attempting to buy tickets via our laptops on reasonably decent domestic broadband. We are based in London, Cheshire, Bath and Derby. The person who is based in Derby has succeeded every time. He has absolutely no technical knowledge whatsoever but has managed to buy everybody tickets and has not failed yet.

"luck" does not mean "everyone gets the average of that luck". It means "luck", and just luck.

I succeeded every year until 2011. Ever since I haven't.

Some people get lucky and some people don't. That's how luck works.

I guess what I am asking is, do you think luck can be this consistent

yes, because that's PRECISELY how luck works.

Throwing a six from a dice on your first throw does not reduce the chance of throwing a six with your second throw. That's a statistical fact.

Just because the laws of averages say that you should only get a six for one in six throws, that does not stop you throwing a six for two times in a row.

or do you think he is lucky in that somehow he has luckily stumbled upon a configuration that works when buying glastonbury tickets? If it is the latter, then I think it is sensible and rational for people to investigate and irrational to put it all down to luck.

Until you have some supporting evidence that is something more than just his success rate then there is nothing to investigate.

You might as well start believing in the tooth fairy. That has the same basis, that some people say its so.

[russycarps]

the only one of my friends who got through to get tickets is from Derby too.....

*twilight zone music*

[HastingsBoy]

I have a friend who has been going every year for 26 years and failed to get tickets yesterday... so yeah, I reckon luck has a lot to do with it! As i've said in another thread, there really is more to life than Glasto and other festivals where you can have as much fun and experience that magic moment where all is right with the world. Glasto has become too big, too popular, too painfully hip to be seen at for it's own good. I decided last year not to bother trying to get tickets and have no regrets at all. I hope all those who have tickets have a wonderful time but i'm afraid, for me, Glasto lost it's way several years ago.

[artl]

Using temporary / extra capacity from for eg Amazon. Phone em up and ask for a quote to provide the capacity required + dont forget to tell them to have their PR people on standby to deal with - suddenly an IT expert, brickbats from people who dont know the difference between DNS and DDos, dont know what DNS does, no idea about NAT/PAT public and private IP addies, IDS loadbalancing or anything else. Throw in a good few polls created by people with no knowledge of statistical analysis but are pretty damn sure that their IP was blocked and their ISP discriminated against ....

Post info on the bill so far of a couple of man-months of legal/contractual time by both parties and how much this will impact ticket prices. All that before you have even spoken to an IT person about ... well anything.

[eFestivals]

Using temporary / extra capacity from for eg Amazon. Phone em up and ask for a quote to provide the capacity required + dont forget to tell them to have their PR people on standby to deal with - suddenly an IT expert, brickbats from people who dont know the difference between DNS and DDos, dont know what DNS does, no idea about NAT/PAT public and private IP addies, IDS loadbalancing or anything else. Throw in a good few polls created by people with no knowledge of statistical analysis but are pretty damn sure that their IP was blocked and their ISP discriminated against ....

Post info on the bill so far of a couple of man-months of legal/contractual time by both parties and how much this will impact ticket prices. All that before you have even spoken to an IT person about ... well anything.

Best post ever.

[Ted Dansons Wig]

the only one of my friends who got through to get tickets is from Derby too.....

*twilight zone music*

[frostypaw]

This is the answer I was looking for based on my original post about not being able to load seetickets.com on a certain IP for a period of the sale and about 2 hours afterwards.

Thanks. I guess everyone just needs to be prepared to be able to use different IPs (with VPN or 3/4G phone signal etc) in case the system wrongly identifies you as malicious behaviour.

[mikeb]

From what it sounds like people can accept that they cant access a web page, but can't accept why they can't access a webpage on one PC while they can on another at the same time, and why that continues to be the situatuion with continual refreshing - why one PC always fails to connect while one connects every time. One solution is just luck and coincidence - that every time PC one tries to connect the site has hit it's limit yet every time PC two tries to connect there's a space for it under the site's limit - but there will be those who suggest that's way too much of a coincidence and that surely at some point PC one will connect and PC two won't, so there must be something technical about it. Where you stand on it depends on your personality and technical knowledge as it seems there isn't really any irrefutable truth for either argument.

I am also tecnically retarded so don't know the solution (or even care really), but it's not as simple as people just whining because they didn't have a ticket.

[eFestivals]

I guess everyone just needs to be prepared to be able to use different IPs (with VPN or 3/4G phone signal etc) in case the system wrongly identifies you as malicious behaviour.

It does make me laugh how there's massive assumptions being made.

From the posts made here there appears to be lots of people who got success by using the same IP but a different computer to one they'd been trying previously.

Given that those posts fit half of your scenario, how do you know that the IP address was the factor that swung it and not simply using a 'fresh' browser?

Scientific analysis only works if you actually do scientific analysis, rather than making something up out of only guesses.

[Vacant0]

If they went to ticketmaster can you imagine how angry people would be at the page that says you are in a queue and your page will be displayed in 5 hours, 15 minutes?? At least it's slightly more in our hands with see. On ticketmaster there's no manual refresh, persistence does not pay off

[eFestivals]

Agreed. Seetickets have frustrated me for a number of years, but ticketmaster really aren't any better - for those reasons and their 'partnership' with touting sites.

no matter how the sale was done, a large number of people who missed out would still find fault with it.

There's no way to make everyone happy when there's more people wanting tickets than there are tickets. You can't get away from that immovable fact.

[creepytennis]

Right, I'm not going to waste any more time on this. matt_berr has beautifully explained what was going on. If people want to ignore that, that's up to them.

With thanks to matt_berr, here's the explanation: http://www.accumuli.com/flood-protection-i-3321.php

[jeffie]

Right, I'm not going to waste any more time on this. matt_berr has beautifully explained what was going on. If people want to ignore that, that's up to them.

With thanks to matt_berr, here's the explanation: http://www.accumuli.com/flood-protection-i-3321.php

Edited October 7, 2013 by jeffie

[eFestivals]

Right, I'm not going to waste any more time on this. matt_berr has beautifully explained what was going on. If people want to ignore that, that's up to them.

With thanks to matt_berr, here's the explanation: http://www.accumuli.com/flood-protection-i-3321.php

It that was kicking in and stopping anyone who was furiously pressing f5 manually, then not only do the writers of that software want putting against the wall and shooting, also anyone who installs it to do that wants sacking on the spot.

There is flood protection, and then there is stopping legitimate traffic.

[russycarps]

It that was kicking in and stopping anyone who was furiously pressing f5 manually, then not only do the writers of that software want putting against the wall and shooting, also anyone who installs it to do that wants sacking on the spot.

There is flood protection, and then there is stopping legitimate traffic.

[matt_berr]

The webscreen is an arse but kinda essential, think of it as an over zealous bouncer at a club that is full to capacity, one in one out.

To get a good charm rating you need to be known to the webscreen before it starts throwing away traffic, visiting seetickets beforehand does that.

Other than not doing anything that looks suspicous I.e. Syn floods or crafted attacks there is not a lot more you can do. I could write a bit about shared ips, mobile hotspots etc but it's too late now.

I wrote about this prior to ticket sales day if you want to see my advice check my posts (ignore the one about shitting myself post lords of lightning)

I do this shit for a living at volumes that dwarf the 3k a minute seetickets do, they really are not that bad at it.... They are not that great either

Anyway I got tickets, I'll do my own thread next year with the definitive guide to increasing your chances.

[eFestivals]

To get a good charm rating you need to be known to the webscreen before it starts throwing away traffic, visiting seetickets beforehand does that.

well it's completely shit then.

The PC's of mine that did that didn't get a sniff of a page, the PC that had never even run browser before Sunday and uses a fixed IP address (the same IP for 5+ years) all to itself got a few pages (and then stalled on the payment submit).

I do this shit for a living at volumes that dwarf the 3k a minute seetickets do,

I'll just point out that See are able to process sales faster than that. They did so last year, and on a smaller system hardware-wise.

The sales are deliberately "throttled", to make the sale take place over a pre-decided timescale.

(I've been told this by bosses at both See and GF).

[marketsqhero]

Which would also explain the reports (and my own experience) of trying via a 3G mobile and getting straight on.

5-6 machines on a home router all going out over the same IP = no go, whereas (assuming not being used as a mobile hotspot), each 3G device IS a unique IP.

[eFestivals]

Which would also explain the reports (and my own experience) of trying via a 3G mobile and getting straight on.

5-6 machines on a home router all going out over the same IP = no go, whereas (assuming not being used as a mobile hotspot), each 3G device IS a unique IP.

that could merely be a 'fresh' browser (and there's reports of people trying a not-yet-tried PC thru the same home router and getting thru first time to pad that idea out).

Loads of people got tickets where there were multiple PCs trying from the same house.

I've yet to see any suggestion that stands up to any scruitiny.

Yes, I know you say you looked into it and gave yourself the greatest chance and were successful by doing it, but shit loads of people did none of that (or the opposite of your recommendations) and got tickets.

I'm not saying there was definitely nothing to what you said, I'm merely saying that any extra chance it might have given was too small a factor for it to be noticeable as giving that extra chance.

Luck works as luck does, and the fact of no discernible patterns points at luck and nothing else.

Edited October 7, 2013 by eFestivals

[Rarity]

Can any techies, especially Matt_Berr as I used his advice about visiting the site before T day, please explain my T day experience to me in simple terms as complete technophobe here.

I had 2 browsers Firefox and IE with one tab each, but was mainly trying with firefox.

Was hitting F5 and was not really achieving anything. Not hardly getting the holding page just a white screen saying your connection need to be reset, I got this message a lot. (this was on firefox) When I got this message I just kept F5ing. Was this the right thing to do?

This would then sometimes take me back to the holding page, where I would keep F5ing and the same thing would keep happening. White screen with message connection needing to be reset and then the occasional holding page.

From the sounds of this was my IP address blocked? Was my F5ing classed as flooding See.

Did I have a bad CHARM rating, even though I had regularly visited the site before the Sale

Would love all you with knowledge to be able to tell me if I was doing the right thing? Told you I was a technophobe:)

Edited October 7, 2013 by Rarity