Football 2013-2014

[LondonTom]

No I've never heard anyone say moyes is a better manager than Jose, a better one for united who as a rule have long term managers. Even going back to pre ferguson where Atkinson got 5 years.

[DomDom1984]

Who did Chelsea sign as Mata's replacement? As far as I can tell, the closest thing to a Mata they brought in is Salah and he's unproven at the moment as far as EPL football goes. Matic is almost certainly not a replacement for Mata.

[thetime]

Surely that's mainly to do with having Fergie remain successful throughout the big money premier league era than anything else? Loads of clubs before that, didn't change their manager often (in fact it's only really in the last few years it's got properly stupid.)

[thetime]

Who did Chelsea sign as Mata's replacement? As far as I can tell, the closest thing to a Mata they brought in is Salah and he's unproven at the moment as far as EPL football goes. Matic is almost certainly not a replacement for Mata.

Edited February 4, 2014 by thetime

[eFestivals]

Who did Chelsea sign as Mata's replacement? As far as I can tell, the closest thing to a Mata they brought in is Salah and he's unproven at the moment as far as EPL football goes. Matic is almost certainly not a replacement for Mata.

I was on about Matic, and I agree, he's not like for like.

What I'm getting at is that Matic was the sort of player Utd needed and not Mata. They've bought the wrong player of those that were available to buy, and they paid a significantly greater price.

It's all very well saying "it's hard to buy good players in January", but Chelsea have just proven that it can be done.

[zahidf]

I was on about Matic, and I agree, he's not like for like.

What I'm getting at is that Matic was the sort of player Utd needed and not Mata. They've bought the wrong player of those that were available to buy, and they paid a significantly greater price.

It's all very well saying "it's hard to buy good players in January", but Chelsea have just proven that it can be done.

[eFestivals]

Man Utd have done well in the transfer window for a mid table team.

No, not true. They could still have a heavy-weight punch this window.

It's gone in the summer tho if they don't get top 4.

Hopefully, they can keep hold of Mata and Rooney in the next transfer window. It's unfair when the bigger clubs come round and can have their pick of such players.

Well, from what Anderson's been saying just about the whole squad want out.

(yes, i know I've hugely sexed that up ).

Mind you, did you read about Torres at L'pool? Walks up to Commoli and says "I'm off. They'll be an offer from Chelsea tomorrow".

So I guess things to do with transfers aren't all they look from the outside.

[thetime]

Man Utd have done well in the transfer window for a mid table team.

Hopefully, they can keep hold of Mata and Rooney in the next transfer window. It's unfair when the bigger clubs come round and can have their pick of such players.

[DomDom1984]

Man United will still be a pull for some players, so the next window is still big for them. It'd be naïve to think just because they're not top four, nobody would go.

[zahidf]

Man United will still be a pull for some players, so the next window is still big for them. It'd be naïve to think just because they're not top four, nobody would go.

[eFestivals]

Man United will still be a pull for some players, so the next window is still big for them. It'd be naïve to think just because they're not top four, nobody would go.

Man Utd fans along with everyone else have spent the last decade saying that top players won't go to non-CL clubs.

Does that idea suddenly evaporate when it's Man Utd outside the top 4?

[zahidf]

Mind you, did you read about Torres at L'pool? Walks up to Commoli and says "I'm off. They'll be an offer from Chelsea tomorrow".

[DomDom1984]

I'm not a Man United supporter, so quite frankly don't give a shit about what they said about players joining non-CL clubs. If they did indeed say that then they were talking rubbish. Is their choices more limited? Of course they are, but they still have options. Certainly options better than what they have in their side at the moment, if nothing else.

[DomDom1984]

Aye, they can get away with saying it's a one-off. They won't get away with that two seasons in a row however. Next season is the big one, and that was the case the minute Alex Ferguson left the job.

[eFestivals]

Certainly options better than what they have in their side at the moment, if nothing else.

I think you'd be hard pushed to find may fans - Utd or not - to argue with that part.

[pink_triangle]

[quote name="zahidf" post="4233364"

Chelsea, Man City and Arsenal will have more pull next transfer market. If fourth place is liverpool, then they could easily draw away players which would have instead gone to Man Utd.

I Liverpool back in the Champions League however, would be seen as them back in the top flight on a permanent basis, and more attractive to the players Man Utd need.

[zahidf]

I disagree, I think it will take more than one transfer window for players to think Liverpool are in the champions league on a permanent basis at man utds expense. A lot will think a big club like united will turn it around, every year they don't that thinking diminishes but it doesn't start straight away.

While champions league is a draw, its not the only draw. Players have regularly given up champions league football to play for a bigger club. I suspect 4th place would make Liverpool an option for players abroad who previously wouldn't have considered them if man u weren't interested, but even after one poor season the draw of man utd would still tempt others. In reality the main factor is money and I cant see Liverpool significantly outspending man utd yet.

[DomDom1984]

United will spend to get that spot back as they won't have an option. They won't get outspent by anyone outside of City.

[eFestivals]

United will spend to get that spot back as they won't have an option. They won't get outspent by anyone outside of City.

Yeah, cos the Glazers are just waiting to pump the fortune they don't have into a club they only care about for the profits.

Unless the Glazers suddenly change into something they've never been, it's hard to see any back-upwards movement coming from Utd.

It needs the Glazers to spunk lots of cash on the playing staff during just the next summer - £100M (net, not gross) at least; probably nearer £200M. And around the same again in the following two or three years.

And that would be no guarantee, because the likes of FSG who have probably already pumped £200M+ into the Liverpool playing squad (often badly, but that's part of the same problem Utd will have) are hardly going to sit back having got the Chumps slot they've been chasing and say "oh, Utd are spending money now, so we'll concede defeat and that £200M has been wasted", are they now?

From the getting-rich point of view the Glazers will make more with a managed decline than by investing in the playing squad.

[DomDom1984]

The Glazers haven't had a Man United in this position before. They really WOULD be looking at a pretty bad time if they don't invest in the summer and I'm going to assume they know that. They will pump the money in because if they don't, a lot of the money they put in until now would have been for nothing as the team would fade into obscurity. They don't have an option. Put the money in this summer, or they've pretty much lost every penny they spent in the last 12 months.

[eFestivals]

The Glazers haven't had a Man United in this position before. They really WOULD be looking at a pretty bad time if they don't invest in the summer and I'm going to assume they know that. They will pump the money in because if they don't, a lot of the money they put in until now would have been for nothing as the team would fade into obscurity. They don't have an option. Put the money in this summer, or they've pretty much lost every penny they spent in the last 12 months.

There's a few problems with what you say.

1. they haven't put in any money, they've only taken money out.

2. the "losses" that you're thinking they'd make would be against "profits" they've never made - it's all "on paper". And what is on paper are fantasy valuations of the club anyway.

Unless they've got millions stashed under the carpet - and they haven't - they've got no asset to borrow against, because it's already all in hock to others.

[thetime]

Yeah, cos the Glazers are just waiting to pump the fortune they don't have into a club they only care about for the profits.

Unless the Glazers suddenly change into something they've never been, it's hard to see any back-upwards movement coming from Utd.

It needs the Glazers to spunk lots of cash on the playing staff during just the next summer - £100M (net, not gross) at least; probably nearer £200M. And around the same again in the following two or three years.

And that would be no guarantee, because the likes of FSG who have probably already pumped £200M+ into the Liverpool playing squad (often badly, but that's part of the same problem Utd will have) are hardly going to sit back having got the Chumps slot they've been chasing and say "oh, Utd are spending money now, so we'll concede defeat and that £200M has been wasted", are they now?

From the getting-rich point of view the Glazers will make more with a managed decline than by investing in the playing squad.

[pink_triangle]

Depends on what's in the kitty for Man Utd. Man Utd just spent 37.1 million on Mata, and 27 millon on Felliani. that's a hell of a lot without much being sold in response.

And if they don't get top 4, they won't have the Champions League money. I can see them being outspent.

Also, Moyes as a manager many not be a draw...

[eFestivals]

In the last 18 months they have spent around 100 million on players

The word missing from that sentence is "gross". It's not the same thing.

And besides, Utd have no players worth anything any more anyway. So it's only really net spends from here on in.

[zahidf]

http://twohundredpercent.net/?p=25352

Interesting that soem clubs may try to get Man City banned from Champions league next year for breaking FFP rules.