Rightfield

[eFestivals]

the former Soviet controlled Eastern European states ... have had the experience of living under a [Communist (left wing) state].

Come back when you have the first idea what you're talking about instead of mindlessly parrotting right-wing propaganda.

[Teddington]

Come back when you have the first idea what you're talking about instead of mindlessly parrotting right-wing propaganda.

[CaledonianGonzo]

What would you like to see at a Glastonbury RightField, Teddington?

[mrtourette]

Unfortunately 'left wing' and 'right wing' are far too broad and general to have a reasonable discussion about.

[CaledonianGonzo]

Unfortunately 'left wing' and 'right wing' are far too broad and general to have a reasonable discussion about.

[Teddington]

What would you like to see at a Glastonbury RightField, Teddington?

[Ed209]

*grabs popcorn*

[eFestivals]

Oh I have every idea what I am talking about.

Have you tried actually thinking through your left wing ideas? Actually thinking them through for maybe just 5 mins?

Maybe if you did this, rather than resort to the "shouty" style of a typical left winger, then you would be taken more seriously.

yeah, laughing at displays of gross ignorance is the preserve of just the left, eh?

Tho actually, currently, it is. IDS making up bollocks for his CV, a proven fraudster as tory party chairman, Gove making up bollocks about surveys that would be rejected by the national curriculum to try to have the curriculum changed, and the EU is the cause of all this country's problems (as diversion for right wing stupidity being the real cause).

But hey, you just call me shouty because sense is beyond you sorts everything out, and we can get back to more right wing stupidity.

Edited May 13, 2013 by eFestivals

[mrtourette]

I wouldn't have said so. Despite the variety of disparate views that either term encopasses they're still a useful shorthand.

[Teddington]

yeah, laughing at displays of gross ignorance is the preserve of just the left, eh?

Tho actually, currently, it is. IDS making up bollocks for his CV, a proven fraudster as tory party chairman, Gove making up bollocks about surveys that would be rejected by the national curriculum to try to have the curriclum changed, and the EU is the cause of all this country's problems (as diversion for right wing stupidity being the real cause).

But hey, you just call me shouty because sense is beyond you sorts everything out, and we can get back to more right wing stupidity.

[eFestivals]

However, we are talking about the essence of social and economic policy here, not the politicians.

are we? Then why is an ignorant someone suggesting that the eastern bloc was left wing?

If you want to take that "intellectual" angle, all tories support Hitler.

Edited May 13, 2013 by eFestivals

[Teddington]

So show me a purely commercial-run festival which gets anywhere close.

Yeah, how right you are. Let's all vote UKIP because the greatest problem facing this country today is the EU and not the free-market which fucked-up the economy and doubled the national debt. And all of us want our employment rights abolished too.

I'll look forwards to hearing you tell me all about the raving right wing ideas that don't fall down just as much or even more but which don't get subjected to the same brain-dead analysis.

[CaledonianGonzo]

Well there are all sorts of realistic speeches and debates to be had.

First one could be

"Without a capitalist system, Glastonbury could not possibly exist" Discuss.

[marktea]

Just read through this thread.

Pretty laughable really. Like far too much right of centre politics at the moment theres a lot of bluster, indignation and misplaced sense of victimisation. Add to that a highly selective use of 'facts' (a la Michael Gove) and you have a recipe for making yourself and, I suspect, your nearest and dearest, thoroughly miserable.

I suggest some deep breaths, a course of meditation and complete abstinence from the Daily Mail and Express. You will have a much happier life

[Teddington]

are we? Then why is an ignorant someone suggesting that the eastern bloc was left wing?

If you want to take that "intellectual" angle, all tories support Hitler.

[eFestivals]

I tell you what ....

Why not go to the Leftfield for a few hours at Glastonbury, listen to some of the speakers, inform yourself of issues and suggested solutions, and then come back and post into this thread.

Cos this thread is very certainly showing why a tent like Leftfield is needed.

[fur_q]

It's a useful generalisation to show broad political leaning, but as we've already seen in this thread each has so many different splinters of ideals and movements that as soon as someone tries to brand something as 'right wing' or 'left wing' it's instantly questioned.

It seems a perfectly reasonable generalisation to me to suggest that former Soviet bloc states in Eastern Europe have experience of living under Communist left-wing rule, I'm not sure what Neil's problem is with that but I imagine it will come down to the definition of one of the key terms which demonstrates my point - there will always be arguments about what exactly constitues 'left wing' and 'right wing' that will de-rail any discussion.

[CaledonianGonzo]

It was the Labour government that doubled the national debt. Nothing to do with the free market.

Not a raving right wing idea. Just a fact.

[Teddington]

I think the debates they usually hold in the LeftField are designed to have a bit less of a narrow focus than just discussing the festival. However, I don't really see any reason why a discussion like that couldn't be held in the tent as it currently stands. Mention it to Billy Bragg and see what he says.

[Teddington]

Though given their neoliberal and post-Thatcherism policies, most would probably consider New Labour a party of the centre right.

[CaledonianGonzo]

You know I may well do that.

The issue though is that I am unlikely to get a "fair" hearing if I did. The lefties would be very shouty no doubt.

Can you see them entering into an honest, open minded debate?

[Teddington]

I tell you what ....

Why not go to the Leftfield for a few hours at Glastonbury, listen to some of the speakers, inform yourself of issues and suggested solutions, and then come back and post into this thread.

Cos this thread is very certainly showing why a tent like Leftfield is needed.

[eFestivals]

You do realise that this is totally incorrect don't you?

If the market was TOTALLY free there would be no government debt at all.

Really? what gave you that idea?

I guess on the same basis they'd also be no private debt either.

It was the Labour government that doubled the national debt. Nothing to do with the free market.

Yep, it was the nu-Labour govt which bailed out the free-market banks, who'd run riot with raving right wing ideas as a result of being set free to pursue those raving right free market ideas.

Before nu-Labour felt it necessary to ensure that the rich didn't lose a penny by having everyone else pick up the tab, nu-Labour had succeeded in bring down the national debt by over 10% (from over 40% in 1997, to under 30% in 2008).

And since 2010, the Tories have added over 30% to the national debt - they've very nearly doubled it!

Not a raving right wing idea. Just a fact.

But not a fact at all, as it happens.

nu-Labour are a right wing party. Just because they're to the left of the raving right wing tories doesn't make them left wing.

And the tories have added much more to the national debt since 2010 than Labour added to it between 2008 and 2010 (and before 2008 they reduced it by over 10%).

So you'll have to try a bit harder. Referencing the facts and not the Daily Hate Mail is a good way to start.

[eFestivals]

That's as maybe, the fact still remains that the doubling of the National Debt has NOTHING AT ALL to do with the Free Market.

And yet it does.

It was the free market that created the debt in the first place.

The govt then decided to pick up that5 bankers debt to help support the free market, on the basis that there might be no market art all if they didn't.

And the free marketeers all supported the govt doing that (unless you'd like to show me the free marketeers who said "please don't save us"? )

So, what you have is:-

- free market created debts.

- govt bail-outs in support of the free market.

- free market aficionados all scooping up that govt money.

But the free market hates all of that, eh? PMSL.

To suggest that it does displays a complete lack of knowledge about how the economy works, and therefore indicates that any debate would be based on ignorance rather than facts.

[CaledonianGonzo]

Without the Capitalist system Glasto would not exist. There would be no festival.

A very simple starter for 10 would be the fact that without the "fence" there would be no festival. Fence costs money. Money is generated through the free market.