Votes at 16, backdoor policy pressure

[kaosmark2]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-19907356

So Salmond is arguing that 16-17 year olds should have the right to vote in the Scottish Independence Referendum, on the basis that they'll be voting in the next election, and that they have a right to say in their country's future. In response to this, some MPs (BBC quoting a Labour) are saying how this could be a good way to get a "cultural shift" to enable 16-17 year olds to vote in general elections, while others (Tory quoted), are slating it as a "backdoor way" to get the voting age lowered, and a few other people are criticising the methods.

So, should the voting age be lowered (I reckon so), if not, why not?

Are attempts like this an inspiring example and a step towards a future, or are they conniving, underhanded, backdoor methods of pressuring policy without a proper debate?

[eFestivals]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-19907356

So Salmond is arguing that 16-17 year olds should have the right to vote in the Scottish Independence Referendum, on the basis that they'll be voting in the next election, and that they have a right to say in their country's future. In response to this, some MPs (BBC quoting a Labour) are saying how this could be a good way to get a "cultural shift" to enable 16-17 year olds to vote in general elections, while others (Tory quoted), are slating it as a "backdoor way" to get the voting age lowered, and a few other people are criticising the methods.

So, should the voting age be lowered (I reckon so), if not, why not?

Are attempts like this an inspiring example and a step towards a future, or are they conniving, underhanded, backdoor methods of pressuring policy without a proper debate?

supposedly the tories have agreed to 16 & 17 year olds being able to vote in the Scottish referendum, so they can't be completely set against the idea - but that's in Scotland where the tories don't get any votes anyway.

But I guess in England and Wales they'd have a very different view - if only because it's the case that youngsters tend to be more social minded than older people, and so it would be very likely to work against the proportion of votes that the tories get.

[5co77ie]

I guess the Tories would be against it - most 16 & 17 year olds are well aware of how much the ConDems have shafted them.

[russycarps]

if 16 and 17s are allowed to vote, expect to see people like cheryl cole running for PM.

[pink_triangle]

I like the idea, many 17 year olds are more sensible than a lot of 70 year olds. Of course the Tories would oppose it out of self interest. It's possible you could win a vote without their support, but lab/libs would need almost all the smaller parties to agree. Then no doubt torys would stop it through delaying tactics or house of lords.

[kaosmark2]

Sigh. It's disgraceful how national policy is dictated by parties fearing a reduction in votes rather than accuracy.

[kaosmark2]

if 16 and 17s are allowed to vote, expect to see people like cheryl cole running for PM.

[russycarps]

How disgracefully ageist.

That's the influence of idiots, not young people.

[eFestivals]

I guess the Tories would be against it - most 16 & 17 year olds are well aware of how much the ConDems have shafted them.

but not in Scotland of course.

I suspect that many tories, despite their supposedly "unionist" philosophy, are quite desperate for Scotland to leave the union.

Because it will mean, for a while at least, that the tories will be far more dominant in (rump) UK elections.

It won't be the "forever" that many of those tories will be thinking tho. Just the simple fact of a party in power for too long will ensure that there's a second party able to always make a near-challenge and displace them for near-to 50% of the time (tho it might take a decade or more for that to come about).

[eFestivals]

young people are idiots

tho there's definitely not any fewer of them amongst older people.

[russycarps]

I would maybe give the vote to 17 year olds, but 16? no way.

I agree there are plenty of idiots voting now, so why open up the vote to MORE idiots?

Edited October 11, 2012 by russycarps

[5co77ie]

are there any Tories in Scotland?

[russycarps]

are there any Tories in Scotland?

[eFestivals]

I agree there are plenty of idiots voting now, so why open up the vote to MORE idiots?

because it doesn't make any difference because they're all idiots?

[Rufus Gwertigan]

Mmm. I am all for it as long as 16 and 17 year olds are given the same working hours and conditions as 18 and over

[Ed209]

The government considers 16 old enough to leave school, get a full time job, earn crappy minimum wage, pay income tax, live on your own, have sex, and get married, then they should be allowed a vote.

[eFestivals]

The government considers 16 old enough to leave school, get a full time job, earn crappy minimum wage, pay income tax, live on your own, have sex, and get married, then they should be allowed a vote.

I agree with the principle of that.

But kids can't leave school at 16 now. It's just changed.

[pink_triangle]

I agree that many Tories would gladly be rid of Scotland to help in terms of electoral success, however from memory in Blairs first 2 wins they had a majority in England. I suspect what would happen is non marginal seats would evolve into marginal seats as countries will always find a way of kicking out unpopular government.

[Ed209]

That one passed me by. .

Fuck'em then.

[LondonTom]

The government considers 16 old enough to leave school, get a full time job, earn crappy minimum wage, pay income tax, live on your own, have sex, and get married, then they should be allowed a vote.

[kaosmark2]

The government considers 16 old enough to leave school, get a full time job, earn crappy minimum wage, pay income tax, live on your own, have sex, and get married, then they should be allowed a vote.

[pink_triangle]

Ah my mistake but assuming Wales stay put, the argument holds that labour can win without Scotland.

[kaosmark2]

Ah my mistake but assuming Wales stay put, the argument holds that labour can win without Scotland.

[Rufus Gwertigan]

The government considers 16 old enough to leave school, get a full time job, earn crappy minimum wage, pay income tax, live on your own, have sex, and get married, then they should be allowed a vote.

[gary1979666]

From what I heard, the Tories are only agreeing with the lowering of the age limit in return for it being a one-question referendum.

Today on R4 this morning had a statistician (i think) on who said that it wouldn't cause a material swing in the vote, as 18-24 year olds don't have a great turn out when it comes to voting. If anything, at 18, they tend to vote more, then the following years it drops off again.

Agree that the Tories are against it in general as it'll go against them, but to be fair, that'll be the main reason for labour supporting the move.