The Dirty Independence Question

[kaosmark2]

people who were voting yes but did not want iScotland to be a part of the EU; for some of them, it was getting out of the EU which was driving their vote for indy.

You mean there's idiotic small-minded racists on both sides of the border? I thought every Scotsman was friendly, welcoming and loving to all people*?

*with the addendum that the English don't count as people

[russycarps]

they're not, according to the comments I've just read under the BBC's report of this.

the comments are brilliant aren't they. You can taste the bitterness. Quite what this comment has to do with this story I will never know.

The NO campaign in the referendum on Scotland's independence was the most unfair, lie filled, deceitful piece of politics I have ever witnessed. That is the main reason why YES side are not giving up. To achieve 45% of the vote against all the lies and fear that was thrown at YES is a fantastic achievement and the campaign for equal nation status continues.

[eFestivals]

You mean there's idiotic small-minded racists on both sides of the border? I thought every Scotsman was friendly, welcoming and loving to all people*?

*with the addendum that the English don't count as people

There's morons everywhere. They're not confined to just England.

There's even Scottish people who think the penalising the poorest by the SNP classes as redistributive policies, as seen so very often in this thread. And yet, look....

Scottish students are being forced to take out record levels of debt after the Scottish government cut the grants they could claim by 40%.

Official figures show total student borrowing jumped by 69% for the last academic year up to £430m, the highest level ever, as Scottish ministers championed their policy of providing free university tuition.

The heaviest burden is being carried by the poorest students after ministers cut overall spending on grants for living costs from £53m to £36m last year, and introduced far less generous funding bands which penalised low income applications.

http://www.theguardian.com/education/2014/oct/28/scottish-student-borrowing-soars-record-levels

The SNP has never introduced a redistributive policy that benefits the poorest, they only do it to benefit the middle classes.

[eFestivals]

the comments are brilliant aren't they. You can taste the bitterness. Quite what this comment has to do with this story I will never know.

The NO campaign in the referendum on Scotland's independence was the most unfair, lie filled, deceitful piece of politics I have ever witnessed. That is the main reason why YES side are not giving up. To achieve 45% of the vote against all the lies and fear that was thrown at YES is a fantastic achievement and the campaign for equal nation status continues.

Nicola Sturgeon: putting the 'dum' in referendum.

[russycarps]

Nicola Sturgeon: putting the 'dum' in referendum.

It's annoying though. I most definitely want the UK to stay in Europe and she could have used her privileged position of power to put across an argument explaining why saying in Europe is a good thing.

Instead of that she used the opportunity to once again push her pathetic, failed agenda.

[kaosmark2]

To say something in her credit, she was at least more gracious in defeat than Salmond

[eFestivals]

To say something in her credit, she was at least more gracious in defeat than Salmond

yeah, but she's snatched her own personal victory from the party's defeat. Perhaps that's why?

I doubt she'll be as gracious if/when she loses her own vote over the same thing. Those who might defeat her would be the same traitors and quislings that defeated Alex.

It's impossible for any thinking person to vote 'no' on the basis of the SNP's plans being laughable, after all. They only voted no cos they were feart.

There's some great comments to be read today below the articles on Sturgeon's words. Apparently, future Scottish citizens would have their pensions paid by rUK; Scotland was promised a federal UK; and not only that, they were promised it yesterday and its scandalous that Westminster has lied and not delivered it. It seems that many yes-voting Scots spent the 3 years of Alex's campaign with their head up Alex's arse. No wonder he was getting podgy.

Edited October 29, 2014 by eFestivals

[eFestivals]

PS: vote SNP to get what Scotland wants.

Which is presumably a tory govt to rule over Scotland. I'm certain that Nicola - and the rest of the SNP - doesn't want it any other way.

[kaosmark2]

Of course the SNP want a tory government. It's the only way they can continue to appear more left-wing than the rest of the UK.

[eFestivals]

Of course the SNP want a tory government. It's the only way they can continue to appear more left-wing than the rest of the UK.

Yup, tho they're only fooling the daft and blind with that line. Anyone who looks at the facts and ignores the rhetoric knows the score.

What's amusing here is that by (in effect) stating that she thinks the UK should remain within the EU, she's lined-up with the tories, Labour, & the LibDems within a 'better together' campaign. Who'd have thought it?

[kaosmark2]

Yup, tho they're only fooling the daft and blind with that line. Anyone who looks at the facts and ignores the rhetoric knows the score.

What's amusing here is that by (in effect) stating that she thinks the UK should remain within the EU, she's lined-up with the tories, Labour, & the LibDems within a 'better together' campaign. Who'd have thought it?

Sadly, a fair number of tories and a few Labour politicians are idiotic enough to think abandoning the EU is an option.

[russycarps]

Sadly, a fair number of tories and a few Labour politicians are idiotic enough to think abandoning the EU is an option.

if it wins them votes then they will support it. It doesnt matter if the country goes down the shitter if their careers are secured.

The current crop of politicians are an utter disgrace. It's depressing, and somewhat frightening.

[eFestivals]

Sadly, a fair number of tories and a few Labour politicians are idiotic enough to think abandoning the EU is an option.

I don't doubt it. The sorts who spout the sort of bollocks shown below are not limited to just the sizable brain-dead part of the electorate.

[LondonTom]

I don't doubt it. The sorts who spout the sort of bollocks shown below are not limited to just the sizable brain-dead part of the electorate.

Surely those graphs depend where you live? If you live in Bradford or somewhere with a high Muslim/imigrant population you would guess it higher if you didn't know the facts? (Not saying the electorate are not brain dead, but it could be the preception they have just from where they live.)

[eFestivals]

Surely those graphs depend where you live? If you live in Bradford or somewhere with a high Muslim/imigrant population you would guess it higher if you didn't know the facts? (Not saying the electorate are not brain dead, but it could be the preception they have just from where they live.)

I'm guessing that my immediate locality is perhaps as diverse as anywhere in the country, tho i'm not so daft as to be thinking that the average rural village is similar - or many other places.

Anyway, I think those numbers show where the anti-immigrant/anti-EU feelings are coming from, and it's not from a grasp of the facts.

Tho that much has been clear in other polls for a while, where people often raise immigration as a problem, but also say the problem exists in a non-identifiable somewhere else and not near to them.

Edited October 29, 2014 by eFestivals

[LJS]

Shame it's still the same nuttiness from the SNP no matter who the leader is.

I don't want the UK to leave the EU, but Sturgeon is being insane here. Would she have accepted the rest of the UK voting on whether Scotland should be independent, which her logic about an EU vote says she would have?

I've just been reading nutty nats saying that Scotland gets the decision that England makes. Maths is not the strong point of those nutty nats.

Is logic and consistency something you're able to do better than Nicola, LJS? If so, please do tell us which way it is: do the English get to decide if Scotland gets to be independent, or does Scotland accept that an EU referendum is decided by the whole-UK population?

[LJS]

It's annoying though. I most definitely want the UK to stay in Europe and she could have used her privileged position of power to put across an argument explaining why saying in Europe is a good thing.

Instead of that she used the opportunity to once again push her pathetic, failed agenda.

[LJS]

Yup, tho they're only fooling the daft and blind with that line. Anyone who looks at the facts and ignores the rhetoric knows the score.

What's amusing here is that by (in effect) stating that she thinks the UK should remain within the EU, she's lined-up with the tories, Labour, & the LibDems within a 'better together' campaign. Who'd have thought it?

[eFestivals]

Nothing more or less than a fairly smart bit of politicking from our leader in waiting.

Deliberately divisive politiking, which doesn't respect the sovereign will of the Scottish people as expressed by the indyref, is 'smart'?

It might work towards her aims, but nothing of it is smart. Unless you, a Scottish voter, are too blind to notice that there's nothing the SNP won't trample over - including what the Scottish people think - in pursuit of *their* dream.

Their dream is iScotland at any cost. Yes-ers tend to forget 'the any cost' when they buy into the dream.

If there is an in-oot referendum & the vote is Oot but Scotland votes to stay in, what would your position if you were Snp leader be? Would you accept it without a murmur? Or would you try & use it to your political advantage?

Of course there are lots of "ifs" there, but she is only being a politician.

I'm sure I heard people saying it was only those nasty Eton-going tories who did that sort of thing, selling out 'their people' in pursuit of their personal agenda.

[LJS]

if it wins them votes then they will support it. It doesnt matter if the country goes down the shitter if their careers are secured.

The current crop of politicians are an utter disgrace. It's depressing, and somewhat frightening.

[eFestivals]

Agreeing with people & campaigning alongside them are very different things.

You're just sore that the party you mentally associate yourself with 'let you down' by not agreeing with you. Tho as someone who thinks the SNP have benefited the poor, you're probably in a far better place now.

[LJS]

Golly! Snp at 52%

http://news.stv.tv/scotland-decides/297729-stv-poll-labour-would-annihilated-if-general-election-held-tomorrow/

The gap will presumably narrow significantly but it does indicate Labour in Scotland may be in a bit more bother than some of is thought.

Ukip at 2% is very pleasing.

[Comfy Bean]

2 days ago I said " whatever side you are on it is quite bizarre the mess Labour are in up here "

Neil you quoted this and started your reply with " PMSL "

I didn`t mean this as a good thing hence " whatever side you are on ". Can you expand on how you view the current state of Scottish Labour ?

http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/top-stories/anas-sarwar-quits-as-scottish-labour-deputy-leader-1-3589527

Edited October 30, 2014 by comfortablynumb1910

[Comfy Bean]

ha ha I was just coming here to post "Nicola Sturgeon is talking bollocks again" but you've beaten me to it.

Even the Yes'ers must be cringing for her here.

I`m cringing for one of the two of you but not sure which one

I realise there would be a great irony here but do you think that perhaps you`ve been " trolled " ? Just a thought mind !

Consider this for a second..... England must have what... 90% of the punters who would vote on the EU thing. So IF...Engerland voted to come out then in reality ( in this scenario ) then " we " are out. I would guess that NS knows the numbers !

Do you think she is maybe positioning her party as she knows that against 90% it won`t matter a toss how Scotland vote. She also knows that Scotland is in the main pro-europe / immigration and has been for a while. She also knows that UKIP don`t have the support they enjoy south of the border ( see LJS`s post earlier ) but with elections coming up she is getting the point in early about Scotland as a country being denied what it voted for.....yet again ! On the back of any broken vow talk this could all add up when they take on Labour in the Scottish elections down the line.

Looking at the last couple of pages, I think she has hooked a couple of biggies with her first cast Alex will be so proud

I could of course be wrong and she just said what she said without thinking and never thought for a moment anyone would pick up on it......Yeah it could be that.......

[Comfy Bean]

I should add that I would guess that England would actually vote to stay in Europe. Sadly, I think Dave will edge the election but if there ever is a vote on Europe I think "we" will all be staying in no matter the direction it seems to be going in at the moment. Would be fun to hear the old stories again about how the Banks will all leave and the Sky will fall in if we vote to go it alone.