Football 2011-2012

[Benj]

"clearly"??? Where's it clear?

It *might* be a cover story, or it might not.

The story goes that the Torres sale was agreed at £45M, but they went back to Chelsea and said they now wanted £50M cos of the Carroll price, else no deal.

[Benj]

however it might be massagable during Dalglish's time, it's not possible to go back before his time for what he's responsible for - which you tried.

Yes, you think his signing have been shit, but you can only think about who his signings have been. If you're wrong about that - and you certainly don't know you're right - the whole basis of your arguments is nothing.

And when Everton finally win a cup in 2174, I'll make sure I remind you that at best they're just alright.

His PR has been shit, but it's also that the press are out for him. The proof is 'Arry. So even that is not all it seems.

[pink_triangle]

That's like a competition for the tallest dwarf though isn't it? It's an absolute abomination of a show. Garth Crooks might stand out amongst that bunch of crooked sycophants.

Yup. Way to go Jimmy...

[eFestivals]

The 'story'

Its horrifically poor business practise if nothing else if true, by both parties

There's three parties.

If the story is true, one got a great deal, one got a shit deal, and one was evens.

-------

Can I ask Benj, what you think Commolli was doing when Kenny was picking which players to buy and paying stupid money in some instances?

That's the one part of your theory you haven't yet given a cover story for. Care to enlighten me?

[eFestivals]

Where did I try that? They were all signed during his tenure as manager, interim or not. That is the ONLY fact either of us know. The fact that you've tried to blame them all on Commoli is the whole Kool Aid argument I'm mocking!

so what was Commolli doing instead of the job he was paid to do? Care to share?

If he stopped trying to be such a smart arse c**t, he may have not got the press' necks up so much. Its not 1990 any more, its a shame he didn't realise

Yep, some is his fault. But there's also a whole press corp trying to hide their own failings, and that's no less a part.

[kaosmark2]

As for the players being overpaid, its debatable. I would agree if I thought the money saved from reducing their wages would reduce ticket prices but I suspect it would just go into the chairmans pocket. If the money is there I would rather the footballers get it than the businessmen.

[Benj]

There's three parties.

If the story is true, one got a great deal, one got a shit deal, and one was evens.

-------

Can I ask Benj, what you think Commolli was doing when Kenny was picking which players to buy and paying stupid money in some instances?

That's the one part of your theory you haven't yet given a cover story for. Care to enlighten me?

[Benj]

Yep, some is his fault. But there's also a whole press corp trying to hide their own failings, and that's no less a part.

[eFestivals]

It makes perfect business sense to get as much money as you can for Torres, it makes no business sense to go into the 2 transactions with a set profit margin as it goes against the principle of selling high and buying low. Why would liverpool go for a deal Torres for carrol +15 million, when they could have Torres for Carrol and 16 million. I have never heard of any club conducting transfers in this way as it makes no financial sense

Who said anything about "a set profit margin"? Only you.

If the story is true it's about the minimum profit they were prepared to accept over the two deals, and nothing about getting that £15M profit and only that £15M profit.

If you have a budget of £30M, you can't spend the asked-for £35M unless you can find some way to increase your budget by £5M.

[Benj]

I fully agree. Wages are excessive, but when you consider the money pumped in through Sky and the like, would you rather it go to the people who actually play football, or the agents and owners and TV companies, etc?

[The Nal]

King Kenny sure does have a teflon coating to those Liverpool sympathisers on here. I do agree that he wasn't 100% behind every signing, but am amazed at the slack he's been cut given their general level of performances from Liverpool this season.

[strummer77]

He's a bad bully in the press room, if he was nice and chummy like 'arry, they'd all love him like 'arry, he's a smart arse prick though. may have got away with it back in 1990, the football media is a very different beast now.

Edited May 11, 2012 by strummer77

[Benj]

Ferguson's a bully in the press room and they all roll over and asked to be tickled. The media just have their favourites for other reasons, 'Arry is that. Mainly because he gossips and gives them loads of off the record tapping up stories through car windows. Unprofessional and wrong, but good for sales...

[The Nal]

Ferguson's a bully in the press room and they all roll over and asked to be tickled. The media just have their favourites for other reasons, 'Arry is that. Mainly because he gossips and gives them loads of off the record tapping up stories through car windows. Unprofessional and wrong, but good for sales...

[eFestivals]

Im not saying he's not shite either!

(Although an RS mate did previously try to make out he was great stating all the players in he got at Spurs- Bale, Berbatov, Modric etc (a load of gash too mind!))

yep, they're defo gaff.

The only discovery (discovery, not signing) that Spurs credit to Commolli is Essou-Akoto.

It's a very similar thing at Arsenal too, but with even less credit to Commolli.

Stuff I've read says that Commolli is the ultimate self-salesman, and he only got the Liverpool job because both Arsenal and Spurs have been very slow to slag off Commolli's false claims.

I very much suspect Dalglish had nothing to do with the Transfer Fees themselves, he must have greenlit the moves though and you would have hoped said 'hang on he's never worth that!' when they were being negotiated, it would have been a dereliction of duty to not do so!

It's only a dereliction of duty if he had an official role in anything to do with the price that the club might pay.

It's easy to see that he might not have, or even known what amount was going to be paid, given that it was Commolli's very specific job to do the negotiations.

Dalglish might have had a hand in what players to go after, but even that side of things might have been out of his hands completely - again, that was Commolli's specific role.

With some other clubs, the manager has simply hands the 'buyer' a list of players in preference order, and then everything else is left to the 'buyer'. So while the players (or just some of them) might be on a list Dalglish provided, it could well be the case that they were a long way from his first choices.

[kaosmark2]

The problem is that they're getting far more money than that pumped him, hence virtually all football clubs being hugely in debt and making large losses every year.

You can't run businesses where over 70% of your turnover goes on wages

[kaosmark2]

It's only a dereliction of duty if he had an official role in anything to do with the price that the club might pay.

It's easy to see that he might not have, or even known what amount was going to be paid, given that it was Commolli's very specific job to do the negotiations.

Dalglish might have had a hand in what players to go after, but even that side of things might have been out of his hands completely - again, that was Commolli's specific role.

With some other clubs, the manager has simply hands the 'buyer' a list of players in preference order, and then everything else is left to the 'buyer'. So while the players (or just some of them) might be on a list Dalglish provided, it could well be the case that they were a long way from his first choices.

[strummer77]

Fergies approach is better. As is Daglishs. Think I posted this before but this is how to deal with the press.

[kaosmark2]

Yeah I like the harsh treatment the Scottish managers dish out personally. I think Moyes is similar at times, even if Benj wouldn't like to admit it. I think journalists get away with writing a lot of rubbish and I'd rather see them put in their place than act like Harry, who they love because he cuddles upto them. Ferguson's press demeanour has certainly worked well for United. They know they don't fuck with him.

[pink_triangle]

Who said anything about "a set profit margin"? Only you.

If the story is true it's about the minimum profit they were prepared to accept over the two deals, and nothing about getting that £15M profit and only that £15M profit.

If you have a budget of £30M, you can't spend the asked-for £35M unless you can find some way to increase your budget by £5M.

[strummer77]

Ferguson treats them like shit, but without losing him temper. See Rafa, Wenger, Keegan, and most extreme of all, Kinnear for managers losing their temper at the press.

[kaosmark2]

We must have heard different rumours, the one I heard was liverpool wanted to make a 15 million profit from the deals and the Carroll price was therefore set at a particular level eg if they had got 35 for torres they would have paid 20 for carrol. As you say who knows what really happened, nobody will convince me that newcastle would have turned down 30 million for Carroll though if liverpool had been adamant they wouldnt pay more.

[Benj]

Yeah I like the harsh treatment the Scottish managers dish out personally. I think Moyes is similar at times, even if Benj wouldn't like to admit it. I think journalists get away with writing a lot of rubbish and I'd rather see them put in their place than act like Harry, who they love because he cuddles upto them. Ferguson's press demeanour has certainly worked well for United. They know they don't fuck with him.

[kaosmark2]

Really? I've seen Ferguson go mad... It works though.

Rafa didn't really ever lose his temper like that (his 'rant' was quite placcid) but just sometime tried to be a bit clever with them. He acted a bit smart. They didn't like that. Same with Wenger. The press don't like stuff they don't understand either.

[pink_triangle]

What I heard was Liverpool offerred us 30m, we turned it down,