Football 2011-2012

[eFestivals]

So the question is, will AVB and the Chelsea players be wearing John Terry tshirts later?

who cares. Much more important is whether Chelsea give Spurs a whipping.

I think the chances are pretty good today, as Spurs have a few out with injuries.

I'm starting now to think that Spurs will do better this season than I'd been thinking tho, and I'll now be hugely surprised if Liverpool overhaul them. While I still think Spurs will have a flakey spell (they are Spurs, and managed by 'Arry, after all ), it's not going to be enough to see them drop below a not-scoring Liverpool.

There's a couple of things that might turn that around tho ... firstly I'm guessing that Liverpool are defo going to go and buy someone for up-front; they might have done anyway but with Suarez likely to be missing for the best part of 2 months that's going to be more necessary than it was before.

And secondly, 'Arry's going down.

Forget the thieving scumbags, the courts are gonna be full of footie cases in the new year.

[thetime]

So the question is, will AVB and the Chelsea players be wearing John Terry tshirts later?

[Wooderson]

Suarez has been found guilty of racism. Guilty.

[eFestivals]

Suarez has been found guilty of racism. Guilty.

Yep. But unlike some do, I'm not so stupid as to take that by default as meaning that he's really guilty of racism. Far simpler cases than the Suarez one suffer from wrong verdicts.

I might decide that he is if/when the full details get released. It depends what they reveal.

[Wooderson]

Has hasnt been found guilty of "racism" though. Not at all. That wasnt even the charge. Surprised at you both.

[Wooderson]

Or am I missing something...

[kaosmark2]

Isn't it great that Suarez and Terry are such a despicable human beings for possibly being racist?

[eFestivals]

Has hasnt been found guilty of "racism" though. Not at all. That wasnt even the charge. Surprised at you both.

it's a charge that only exists as an anti-racism measure - so it's more disengenious to say it's not that than to say that it is I reckon. But I know where you're coming from.

I think it's pretty clear that the full details will pretty much say he was outright racist, because otherwise I can't see how the punishment can be justified - and being able to justify it is something the FA will be sure to do.

Tho of course the spat with Blatter is in the mix here as well.

[thetime]

blimey were all going round in circles are we not?

theres the side who think its okay to make a racist comment and lets be honest blaming evra for it all and not poor old misunderstood suarez.

theres the other side who think racist comments(im sure eating someones ear, he was misunderstood aswel) are disgusting and no place in todays society.

[eFestivals]

Well youre missing what the FA and Evra himself have stated for a kickoff.

The language he used was deemed offensive, yes. To extrapolate from this that the player is a racist is exactly why the pushback from LFC HQ / playing staff / fans has been so extreme. Youve proved my point here.

Nal said "guilty of racism". Being racist does not automatically make someone a racist.

[kaosmark2]

blimey were all going round in circles are we not?

theres the side who think its okay to make a racist comment and lets be honest blaming evra for it all and not poor old misunderstood suarez.

theres the other side who think racist comments(im sure eating someones ear, he was misunderstood aswel) are disgusting and no place in todays society.

[Wooderson]

I suppose if you use racial abusive language then its a charge people are going to put to you...

Its very difficult to prove someone is a "racist" as its a thought crime. You can only prove "actions"...

[eFestivals]

With Suarez, if he's using 'black'/'negro'/'negrito' while insulting someone, that's being racist (doesn't mean he is one).

even that doesn't necessarily hold true - the insult and any racially based words can be separate parts of what is said.

But in general what you state is right.

But 8 matches compared to Mackie's 3 is ridiculous. Hence why I think it's a political decision.

You could be right, tho the politics might be something as simple as admitted guilt by Mackie and no admitted guilt by Suarez, rather than trying to give Blatter one.

[The Nal]

Sorry. Guilty of "racially abusing" a player.

[eFestivals]

blimey were all going round in circles are we not?

theres the side who think its okay to make a racist comment and lets be honest blaming evra for it all and not poor old misunderstood suarez.

theres the other side who think racist comments(im sure eating someones ear, he was misunderstood aswel) are disgusting and no place in todays society.

If that's your level of analysis of what's been said here, perhaps you should give up analyising?

No one here has said it's OK to make a racist comment.

No one has blamed Evra for it.

No one has said that past bad behaviour over different things necessarily have a bearing here.

There's not even anything to show that Suarez made a racist comment as yet. Just because three people have decided that he has doesn't mean that he has.

[Ed209]

Just been reading the last few pages of this thread on the Suarez incident. Football, and sport in general is a funny thing isn't it? People on here are arguing a certain way just because of club loyalty. I'm fairly sure that if the accused player was a united player then people would be debating a completely different way. Now I'm sure the Liverpool and Utd fans would try and tell me otherwise, but I wouldn't believe you.

[eFestivals]

Uh, I don't think those are the only 2 sides. Personally, I think Suarez has been stupid and deserves a ban, but isn't necessarily an outright racist, while Evra has been stupid and deserves a ban, and might be an outright racist.

From the reports of what's supposed to happened (that might not be true, but we have nothing else to go on) that's about spot on.

[Wooderson]

I think it is moot whether a 3-man panel of puffins in a civil kangaroo court can make findings against someone for something as serious as this. Rulings get lost in semantics. "Racism" turns to "racist". The fact that no evidence or findings have been pubished for something as critical as this for a player and a club is a fucking disgrace.

[The Nal]

I think it is moot whether a 3-man panel of puffins in a civil kangaroo court can make findings against someone for something as serious as this. Rulings get lost in semantics. "Racism" turns to "racist". The fact that no evidence or findings have been pubished for something as critical as this for a player and a club is a fucking disgrace.

[eFestivals]

Just been reading the last few pages of this thread on the Suarez incident. Football, and sport in general is a funny thing isn't it? People on here are arguing a certain way just because of club loyalty. I'm fairly sure that if the accused player was a united player then people would be debating a completely different way. Now I'm sure the Liverpool and Utd fans would try and tell me otherwise, but I wouldn't believe you.

tribalism. It's a central part of football.

Sadly some Utd fans here have been far to quick to gloat, despite the complete absence of any solid facts from their opinions, while the only reports that there are to go on put their own player in the frame for the same offence but with less doubt on the meaning of his words.

[kaosmark2]

even that doesn't necessarily hold true - the insult and any racially based words can be separate parts of what is said.

But in general what you state is right.

You could be right, tho the politics might be something as simple as admitted guilt by Mackie and no admitted guilt by Suarez, rather than trying to give Blatter one.

[Wooderson]

Sorry. Guilty of "racially abusing" a player.

[thetime]

It has been acknowledged that neither the FA nor Evra himself are accusing or claiming or of the belief that Luis Suarez is a "racist". Can you understand this for me please? This is on the record.

Furthermore - what Evra is reported to have said to Suarez - made a comment that brought the game into disrepute with specific reference to the opponent's nationality - would be subject to precisely the same misconduct charge as Suarez in the strictest sense of the rulebook. If I was him I wouldnt be sleeping too soundly. " Given the FA / Evra / Manchester Utd's intolerance of Luis Suarez's explanation we'll see where this one goes. It ain't over till its over.

General Behaviour

3 (1) A Participant shall at all times act in the best interests of the game and shall not

act in any manner which is improper or brings the game into disrepute or use any

one, or a combination of, violent conduct, serious foul play, threatening, abusive,

indecent or insulting words or behaviour.

(2) In the event of any breach of Rule E 3(1) including a reference to any one or more

of a person’s ethnic origin, colour, race, nationality, faith, gender, sexual orientation

or disability (an “aggravating factor”), a Regulatory Commission shall consider

the imposition of an increased sanction

[The Nal]

Are the details released tomorrow ?

[thetime]

Sadly some Utd fans here have been far to quick to gloat