Protests about U2 Playing

[geebus]

I wonder how many people have bought items from Play.com or any other offshore company to get something cheap? You do realise that you've just avoided paying tax to save yourself some money don't you?

[jimmyt]

There seems to be an element of hypocrisy to both the protest arguments and U2's infamous pontificating.

What I find most depressing though is the amount of posters in this thread who seem to have missed the fact that Glastonbury is very, very much about highlighting charity work, protesting injustice and encouraging what might be called 'better living' - the whole place is soaked in this ethos. You don't get people like Greenpeace, Oxfam, WaterAid and so forth operating at similar scales at other festivals, nor do other festivals give over such massive chunks of their earnings to such charities.

This doesn't mean spending your weekend weaving hemp jumpers for the poor or giving away all your beer money to Save the Children, but it does allow you to sign up to campaigns, chuck a bit of change in the buckets and *GASP* maybe learn something that will alter how you think about certain issues.

It's not a 'downer', just part and parcel of what Glastonbury stands for - this is what makes Glastonbury different and is contributory to the 'everybody be nice' vibe the festival has.

Perhaps some people would be better suited to V Festival...?

[geebus]

If your talking about U2 their then I am sure they know exactly how the world works.

[Torcs4]

let's all encourage the rich to shirk their taxes and admire them for it, cos we all want to pay much more in taxes ourselves to cover what they don't pay, eh?

[CaledonianGonzo]

theres no need or place for protesters at a festival where people are trying to relax and forget the out side world if you really wont to protest dont buy a ticket that way you wont be supporting bono ..or have you forgotten he gets paid to play glasto you donder heads :angry: :angry:

im there to enjoy myself i dont want people ruining my time at glasto ..if they do ill be telling them so

[essex_jim]

I really don't think that's what I was suggesting. And I don't want it to look like I was defending/excusing them against the overall charge, or that I disagree with the main point of that charge. Quite the opposite. Just pointing out that my Example A is very different to their Example B.

And a lot of posters in this thread don't quite have the story right - It's not U2 trying to skirt all their tax obligations, it's U2 trying to limit a second round of taxes on one component of what would be a number of components - personal and business - of theirs that would attract significant taxation all over the world.

[J1mbo]

Difficult one, though, isn't it? I have treated Glasto as my main holiday for years. I always thought the point was that it's just about the only place where you can be what you want to be; if that means it's the place where you rattle tins, make lots of noise and protest about stuff, great. Equally, if you want to drink lots of cider and watch some great music/comedy/theatre then that's equally fine. So is sitting in your tent all day getting high, if that's your thing - but no one group should think they have the right to disrupt the other groups of people, in my opinion.

I'm pretty sure when ME held the first festival it was mostly about getting off your head, having a great time, "free love" and listening to a few bands. I've never read a report on the significant protesting and demonstrations held in 1970.

[Bobser]

I'm fairly clear on my own beliefs and opinions and they are not often in alignment with Neil's (I think it's fair to say we vote differently - from what I've seen Neil post previously, anyway) but in this instance I am allowing the debate being had here to educate me and to open my eyes a little to what is deemed a significant enough issue for people to want to make it the centre of their Glastonbury (the protesters, I mean). I'm terribly sorry if my not bowling in with an opinion that I've formed in three seconds whilst refusing to consider the points raised by others has offended you.

Oh and, if your reading skills are up to it, you may find that Neil and myself were actually raising different points. Neil is focusing on the impact on the Irish. I'm far more selfish and I'm more worried about it being my (English) money that's used to bail out the banks in Ireland and how that impacts on the public services in my country. I would also refer to my earlier comments where I've made it clear that I don't think U2 have actually done anything wrong. I thoroughly agreed with the point someone made about the protests being aimed at the wrong people, i.e. don't have a go at the people doing what they've been told they're allowed to do, change the rules!

[J1mbo]

Make sure you close your eye when you walk around the site or between bands when the big screens are showing campaign videos. There's advocacy absolutely everywhere at Glasto. From climate camp and the Green Fields to Speaker's Corner and the University in the Park, from the banners along the railroad tracks to the people dressed as orangutans to Mark Thomas doing cabaret to the Greenpeace and MSF stages to the NGO logos on all of the fest's ticketing and marketing.

One inflatable bunch of euro notes is literally the smallest fraction of the activism that makes up the lifeblood of the festival. After all, it's more or less the biggest annual gathering of the counter-culture anywhere in Europe.

[guypjfreak]

Make sure you close your eye when you walk around the site or between bands when the big screens are showing campaign videos. There's advocacy absolutely everywhere at Glasto. From climate camp and the Green Fields to Speaker's Corner and the University in the Park, from the banners along the railroad tracks to the people dressed as orangutans to Mark Thomas doing cabaret to the Greenpeace and MSF stages to the NGO logos on all of the fest's ticketing and marketing.

One inflatable bunch of euro notes is literally the smallest fraction of the activism that makes up the lifeblood of the festival. After all, it's more or less the biggest annual gathering of the counter-culture anywhere in Europe.

[bamber]

U2 aside for a moment, Tax evasion and avoidance are at historically high levels all over the world. We don't even know the true levels as the Channel Islands, Caymans and Panama etc. are hardly forthcoming with figures.

Compounding the gap created by Tax evasion is the historically low rates of tax that the rich are paying now anyway especially in the US but a similar picture is true elsewhere, where America leads the rest of the world follows.

The richest 1% of Americans now receive over 20% of total income, and the richest 10% gets roughly 50% of all income. As late as 1980 the top tax rate in the US was over 70% it is now 36% without the further reductions they gain from evasion and avoidance. The IRS estimates that the top 400 richest people in America (very rich) only pay around 18% of their income in tax. These figures are obscene and represent a complete turn around from the much fairer division of wealth that has existed in the successful capitalist systems of the past (including US).

Worse still is that instead paying taxes the rich in America are now lending their own government money at unprecedented levels just so that they can pay for the things that should be paid for out of taxation - 40% of America's spiralling debt is owed to it's own citizens.

The wealth gap between the rich and poor of this world will destroy us all if not curbed and the only way to curb it is for Governments to grow some teeth and get after the rich, and make them pay back what they owe so that the distribution of wealth is restored to a more equitable level. They need to do this now otherwise there will be revolution.

While we were all feeling the pinch last year the number of millionaires in the world increased by 12% and the average wealth of the Sunday Times richest 1000 increased by 18%. With growth at around 1-2% that means that the very rich are just taking the piss out of us right here and right now, and anyone one who tries to defend them because they would do the same if they ever got rich is just a short sighted moron.

[CaledonianGonzo]

i must be blind ive never seen a nasty protest [this one seems to be]at glasto ok you have people campaigning for good caurses and getting their point across but NO real personal protest against a single person [as this one is ]it just doesn't seem right.

Members of activist group Art Uncut will hoist a massive inflatable sign with the message 'Bono Pay Up' spelt out in lights during the Irish band's headline performance.

Read more: http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/tax/article.html?in_article_id=535660&in_page_id=11#ixzz1OVu6a6zd

this there is no need for

[Torcs4]

They've made it quite clear that they have no intention to actually cause disruption - either to the bands set or the punters enjoyment of it - and as long as that's the case, I can't see any problem with it at all. There's no question activism/protest are a part of Glastonbury. To suggest otherwise is ridiculous. It's just a question of whether or not it's in the right spirit. Which, at Glastonbury, is more often than not a serious message wrapped in a Glastonbury spirit of fun/cheekiness etc.

Depending on the actual 'plan', it doesn't sound like what they're going to do breaks with that. If they unfurl some mega-banner and try and hold it there for a long time, and it's positioned so it's blocking the view of hundreds/thousands, that's not cool. If they somehow try and actually disrupt the band, that's not cool. But it doesn't sound like that's what they're trying to do. 'Floating' something alone suggests something up above and beyond the crowd, so it's in nobodies way. All good. They're probably only going to disrupt the BBC - not so many of those long/wide crowd shots while it's taking place. So that cameraman up on the crane at the back can take a moment to roll one. Good for him.

[jimmyt]

This thread probably isn't the best source to be educated in the matter to be fair, Neils shoulder-monkey

[Bobser]

Unfortunately you obviously have no idea what education is. Anywhere that has a discussion taking place with different points of view is a good place to be educated. Anywhere that you can gather information is a good place to be educated. Just out of interest, why have you bothered joining the discussion if you are so determined to ignore everyone else's views or, indeed, think you look clever for dismissing someone for finding any common ground with someone else? Thank goodness all of your opinions are well-informed and entirely your own. It must be hard being you given your exhaustive knowledge of everything you speak about whilst simultaneously having to make sure that everything you convey is an opinion never before offered by someone else.

[guypjfreak]

They've made it quite clear that they have no intention to actually cause disruption - either to the bands set or the punters enjoyment of it - and as long as that's the case, I can't see any problem with it at all. There's no question activism/protest are a part of Glastonbury. To suggest otherwise is ridiculous. It's just a question of whether or not it's in the right spirit. Which, at Glastonbury, is more often than not a serious message wrapped in a Glastonbury spirit of fun/cheekiness etc.

Depending on the actual 'plan', it doesn't sound like what they're going to do breaks with that. If they unfurl some mega-banner and try and hold it there for a long time, and it's positioned so it's blocking the view of hundreds/thousands, that's not cool. If they somehow try and actually disrupt the band, that's not cool. But it doesn't sound like that's what they're trying to do. 'Floating' something alone suggests something up above and beyond the crowd, so it's in nobodies way. All good. They're probably only going to disrupt the BBC - not so many of those long/wide crowd shots while it's taking place. So that cameraman up on the crane at the back can take a moment to roll one. Good for him.

[thesecretingredientiscrime]

ok now I wish id put it like that old son thank you youve summed up my feelings better than i could my self nice one

[jimmyt]

Jeez!! I'm taking the piss.

I certainly don't know enough on the matter to have a definitive opinion on the subject and I seriously doubt most people on here do. My point was take it with a pinch of salt. You seem to have formed your opinion based on what people are saying here.

I say this because you mentioned your opinion of Bono is dropping by the minute or something along those lines.

[HurrahBrother]

U2 aside for a moment, Tax evasion and avoidance are at historically high levels all over the world. We don't even know the true levels as the Channel Islands, Caymans and Panama etc. are hardly forthcoming with figures.

Compounding the gap created by Tax evasion is the historically low rates of tax that the rich are paying now anyway especially in the US but a similar picture is true elsewhere, where America leads the rest of the world follows.

The richest 1% of Americans now receive over 20% of total income, and the richest 10% gets roughly 50% of all income. As late as 1980 the top tax rate in the US was over 70% it is now 36% without the further reductions they gain from evasion and avoidance. The IRS estimates that the top 400 richest people in America (very rich) only pay around 18% of their income in tax. These figures are obscene and represent a complete turn around from the much fairer division of wealth that has existed in the successful capitalist systems of the past (including US).

Worse still is that instead paying taxes the rich in America are now lending their own government money at unprecedented levels just so that they can pay for the things that should be paid for out of taxation - 40% of America's spiralling debt is owed to it's own citizens.

The wealth gap between the rich and poor of this world will destroy us all if not curbed and the only way to curb it is for Governments to grow some teeth and get after the rich, and make them pay back what they owe so that the distribution of wealth is restored to a more equitable level. They need to do this now otherwise there will be revolution.

While we were all feeling the pinch last year the number of millionaires in the world increased by 12% and the average wealth of the Sunday Times richest 1000 increased by 18%. With growth at around 1-2% that means that the very rich are just taking the piss out of us right here and right now, and anyone one who tries to defend them because they would do the same if they ever got rich is just a short sighted moron.

[bamber]

U2 aside for a moment, Tax evasion and avoidance are at historically high levels all over the world. We don't even know the true levels as the Channel Islands, Caymans and Panama etc. are hardly forthcoming with figures.

Compounding the gap created by Tax evasion is the historically low rates of tax that the rich are paying now anyway especially in the US but a similar picture is true elsewhere, where America leads the rest of the world follows.

The richest 1% of Americans now receive over 20% of total income, and the richest 10% gets roughly 50% of all income. As late as 1980 the top tax rate in the US was over 70% it is now 36% without the further reductions they gain from evasion and avoidance. The IRS estimates that the top 400 richest people in America (very rich) only pay around 18% of their income in tax. These figures are obscene and represent a complete turn around from the much fairer division of wealth that has existed in the successful capitalist systems of the past (including US).

Worse still is that instead paying taxes the rich in America are now lending their own government money at unprecedented levels just so that they can pay for the things that should be paid for out of taxation - 40% of America's spiralling debt is owed to it's own citizens.

The wealth gap between the rich and poor of this world will destroy us all if not curbed and the only way to curb it is for Governments to grow some teeth and get after the rich, and make them pay back what they owe so that the distribution of wealth is restored to a more equitable level. They need to do this now otherwise there will be revolution.

While we were all feeling the pinch last year the number of millionaires in the world increased by 12% and the average wealth of the Sunday Times richest 1000 increased by 18%. With growth at around 1-2% that means that the very rich are just taking the piss out of us right here and right now, and anyone one who tries to defend them because they would do the same if they ever got rich is just a short sighted moron.

[eFestivals]

And a lot of posters in this thread don't quite have the story right - It's not U2 trying to skirt all their tax obligations, it's U2 trying to limit a second round of taxes on one component of what would be a number of components - personal and business - of theirs that would attract significant taxation all over the world.

that's factually incorrect.

U2 used to get tax breaks in Ireland. When Ireland removed those tax breaks they moved their affairs for tax purposes to The Netherlands.

A tax break means that someone is paying less tax than they otherwise would do. The removal of a tax break means that they pay tax in the same way as everyone else.

U2 don't think they should pay taxes in the same way as everyone else.

Having a view like U2 clearly do comes to mean that they consider themselves somehow special, to be treated differently to other 'normal' people. It's also the case that options such this are the exclusive preserve of the rich at the expense of the poor.

[russycarps]

It is amazing the amount of people in this thread sticking up for the mega rich and their tax avoiding practices.

It is this fawning and tugging of forelocks to their rich masters that ensures the status quo will remain ever thus.

Poor people are the same today as they were 100s of years ago when they worked the fields for the rich landowners.

Once upon a time I'd expect better from a glastonbury crowd, but certainly not anymore.

If anyone needed more evidence of the decline of the typical glastonbury goer, then this thread is it.

[jimmyt]

It is amazing the amount of people in this thread sticking up for the mega rich and their tax avoiding practices.

It is this fawning and tugging of forelocks to their rich masters that ensures the status quo will remain ever thus.

Poor people are the same today as they were 100s of years ago when they worked the fields for the rich landowners.

Once upon a time I'd expect better from a glastonbury crowd, but certainly not anymore.

If anyone needed more evidence of the decline of the typical glastonbury goer, then this thread is it.

[talkie_toaster]

... Even if all you want to do is walk around the place whacked out of your gourd ...

[essex_jim]

Bono is to blame for all of the worlds problems.