did Jay-Z kill white boy indie?

[eFestivals]

It's just occurred to me that the standard UK white boy indie durge has been on the slide since around the same time as the Noel Gallagher "hip hop at Glastonbury? No way" thing.

Now, given that Jay-Z's triumph was also a slap in the face for Noel and those who sided with him (I'm thinking of the likes of The Scum's Bizarre column - which got truly bizarre for once), it could also have been a slap in the face for that whole indie scene.

Certainly with hindsight it now looks like the peak in indie happened at around the same time.

Can the two things be related? What do you think?

[ampersand]

if we can have something else to kill this urban shite, please do!

[Pogues Mcgogues]

Nah I don't think so. Things come and go. If it's the same kinda stuff I think you're on about, well it kinda got revived by the Libertines et al, and you get a wave of the bigger bands, then the copies, then the next copies, and soon it becomes dated.

It's just moving on to something else. The Jay Z thing played along with that trend I'd think, not actualy create it.

[jump]

Speaking of Sun's Bizarre, they gave an apolgy for saying Jay Z ruined the festival after Glasto finished this year. And it only took 2 years to say sorry.

[eFestivals]

Nah I don't think so. Things come and go. If it's the same kinda stuff I think you're on about, well it kinda got revived by the Libertines et al, and you get a wave of the bigger bands, then the copies, then the next copies, and soon it becomes dated.

It's just moving on to something else. The Jay Z thing played along with that trend I'd think, not actualy create it.

I'm well aware that these things are circular.

But all the same, the white boy indie thing has fallen off a cliff at a speed I wouldn'[t really have thought possible a couple of years ago - so perhaps something more than just the normal fashion thing was at play as well?

It certainly changed the image of Noel from a lovable rogue to an irrelevant dinosaur for some people. Why wouldn't that have also reflected to some extent onto the music that in many ways he represents?

[jump]

I'm well aware that these things are circular.

But all the same, the white boy indie thing has fallen off a cliff at a speed I wouldn'[t really have thought possible a couple of years ago - so perhaps something more than just the normal fashion thing was at play as well?

It certainly changed the image of Noel from a lovable rogue to an irrelevant dinosaur for some people. Why wouldn't that have also reflected to some extent onto the music that in many ways he represents?

[HurrahBrother]

I'm well aware that these things are circular.

But all the same, the white boy indie thing has fallen off a cliff at a speed I wouldn'[t really have thought possible a couple of years ago - so perhaps something more than just the normal fashion thing was at play as well?

It certainly changed the image of Noel from a lovable rogue to an irrelevant dinosaur for some people. Why wouldn't that have also reflected to some extent onto the music that in many ways he represents?

[Guest musiclove123]

Indie was around and dominated the charts for the most of my early 20's-now it's R&B, cheesy club dance and pop it seems!

[LondonTom]

It does seems to have quieterned down a bit, most of the most famous one album bands have disbanded. This year I have also noticed of the frontmen seem to be going solo? The guy from maximo park, jon fratelli and ofc Brandon Flowers. It seemed to happen as more synths were introduced to the scene.

Still Franz Ferdinand and Klaxons will be leading the resistance for the next few years.

[LittlemissC]

Music has just developed and a big resurgence for electro has changed the indie scene. And the fact that there have been too many dull bands out - I miss the excitement of bands like Pulp, early Manics, etc, and even Oasis as they started out.

In answer to your question, no Jay Z isn't responsible.

[liambarton]

I would class myself as a bit of an "indie" kid and wouldnt blame jayz but more nme for the death of good guitar bands. Nme seem to create a scene then within a year kill it off for "the next big thing". I also dont understand this whole fascination of guitr bands now using synths and going all electro and dancey. (courteeners, klaxons and even kings of leon to some extent). If all bands start going that way where would that leave music festivals ans the british music scene. And then you have your likes of ndubz and tinnie temper and what not all dominating the music scenes. Surely none of these could headline glastonbury so what happens then? Wheres the new crop of headliners going to come from?

[let's 'ave it!!!]

I would class myself as a bit of an "indie" kid and wouldnt blame jayz but more nme for the death of good guitar bands. Nme seem to create a scene then within a year kill it off for "the next big thing". I also dont understand this whole fascination of guitr bands now using synths and going all electro and dancey. (courteeners, klaxons and even kings of leon to some extent). If all bands start going that way where would that leave music festivals ans the british music scene. And then you have your likes of ndubz and tinnie temper and what not all dominating the music scenes. Surely none of these could headline glastonbury so what happens then? Wheres the new crop of headliners going to come from?

[zlatan07]

he is maybye not directly responsible but he cant not have had an affect, he has had more success over a longer period than a vast majority of the indy bands that seem to come and go in the space of months where a couple of years is seen as "a good run" for bands before they start hating the music / fans / manager / record label / themselves.

for a rap star to headline glastonbury, the flagship of british music was a massive deal for both the lovers and the haters of the decision consciously or not. its made him more popular in the UK and at the expensive of "indy" bands.

[zlatan07]

plus i heard on the radio that i think Q did a review of the year's charts every week and only 2 "rock songs" made it in, one was muse and the other was florence and the machine..........speaks for itself doesnt it

[jackarmy]

The lineup on the Pyramid especially has become less Mainstream Indie over the years. Look at the difference between the 2007 Pyramid and the 2010 Pyramid and it's noticeable at the decreasing amount of Indie Bands.

[zlatan07]

plus i heard on the radio that i think Q did a review of the year's charts every week and only 2 "rock songs" made it in, one was muse and the other was florence and the machine..........speaks for itself doesnt it

[Joshuwarr]

Its a good job you're not a music journalist because this is some of the most ridiculous stuff I've ever heard in my life. Just because we don't all pine over the "long lost glory days" of music when bands like The Levellers, New Model Army and other preachy rubbish engulfed festivals doesn't mean that anything else ("white boy indie", not only a dated view, but immature) is somehow not relevant to music today, or in some way important.

You simply can't just turn on the tv/radio and simply take what you see or hear as a clear example of the current state of indie music. Trying listening a little closer and you'll see that a lot of the most exciting up and coming indie bands are actually led by not just skinny white boys, but women and people from all kinds of backgrounds.

Its a great shame that someone who runs a site as important as this has such a narrow view of the state of music.

[Joshuwarr]

plus i heard on the radio that i think Q did a review of the year's charts every week and only 2 "rock songs" made it in, one was muse and the other was florence and the machine..........speaks for itself doesnt it

[LusciousLucy]

Scuse my stupidity but what exactly is described as white boy indie durge?

I take it then that the American(?) bands such as MGMT and Vampire Weekend dont cover this genre. I consider all those sorts of acts that performed at the G this year as indie.

The Libs at Reading was rather special it has to be said.

But what do I know?...I am an electronic techno fan...and want Daftee Punkee, Leftfield, The Chems and Underworld to all perform next year (with a possible appearance from Prince if at all humanly possible!)

[jameshunt]

plus i heard on the radio that i think Q did a review of the year's charts every week and only 2 "rock songs" made it in, one was muse and the other was florence and the machine..........speaks for itself doesnt it

[zlatan07]

No offence but Q magazine has never exactly had its finger on the pulse when it comes to up and coming music now has it?

[liambarton]

Actually "lets ave it" i have everything the courteeners have release on cd and vynil so i do know what am on about and the second album is riddled with synth with 2 pf the 3 singles released being more of a dancier Kind. But for you i will

Change my example to bloc party then

[let's 'ave it!!!]

Actually "lets ave it" i have everything the courteeners have release on cd and vynil so i do know what am on about and the second album is riddled with synth with 2 pf the 3 singles released being more of a dancier Kind. But for you i will

Change my example to bloc party then

[rexclark]

I would say It peaked around the time of The Libertines were at there peak and you had all the copycat acts (The Others anyone?) then gradually declined. I would say R&L have more of these acts now where Glastonbury as a whole goes for more intelligent Indie acts such as The Flaming Lips.

[BadgerMatt]

Maybe the anomaly is that "white boy indie" was so dominant for over a decade. Prior to Suede/Blur/Pulp/Oasis suddenly getting mainstream success in 93/94 that particular genre was never in the mainstream. A cult (albeit a big cult) at best. Even a few years earlier Stone Roses & Nirvana, bands who are held in very high esteem, never got huge amounts of airplay or high in the charts.