Mephedrone

[DiscoDolly]

The prohibition era showed that if people have alcohol taken away they'll seek it out as they feel its their right in a way that's never really happened with any other drug. Keeping drugs illegal means that less people see it as a civil right, and so it can be considered a simple black and white situation. It's a floodgate situation; legalise drugs and it all goes wrong after a few years... it'll be very hard to sort out once everyone sees drugs as a normal everyday thing.

I understand you think it should be legalised because there's nothing wrong with it, but I don't think it will be legalised until there's something provably good. And well, there's no practical advantage to a recreational drug, by it's very definition it's just there for pleasure and nothing else. So what political pressure is there? Other than doing it out of spite to piss off criminal organisations there's no compelling reasons to legalise. "It's fun and does no harm" doesn't cut it.

Plus no one really knows what will happen when new recrational drugs are legalised. It'd be a huge trial of both how the drug is issued and the legislation behind use. That's a huge amount of money to be spent on an experiment with an unknown outcome.

Edited January 28, 2010 by DiscoDolly

[eFestivals]

It was announced today that over 9000 deaths occured last year in the UK related to alcohol,

that's a huge understatement as well.

Things might have changed, but around a decade ago W.H.O. reckoned that alcohol was directly responsible for more deaths in the UK each year than tobacco - by about 25,000 deaths.

[Amlo4ka]

Seriously, all you guys going on about alcohol etc just shut up, this stuff is evil, its awful how quickly normal people get dragged in. Alcohol may kill lots of people but only because 99.9% of people drink regularly anyway. The stuff is good but i want it to be banned, it wont stop it being around, it will just raise the price, making it less dangerous as people are doing stupid amounts of this stuff due to its price.

[CaptainAcid]

The prohibition era showed that if people have alcohol taken away they'll seek it out as they feel its their right in a way that's never really happened with any other drug. Keeping drugs illegal means that less people see it as a civil right, and so it can be considered a simple black and white situation. It's a floodgate situation; legalise drugs and it all goes wrong after a few years... it'll be very hard to sort out once everyone sees drugs as a normal everyday thing.

I understand you think it should be legalised because there's nothing wrong with it, but I don't think it will be legalised until there's something provably good. And well, there's no practical advantage to a recreational drug, by it's very definition it's just there for pleasure and nothing else. So what political pressure is there? Other than doing it out of spite to piss off criminal organisations there's no compelling reasons to legalise. "It's fun and does no harm" doesn't cut it.

Plus no one really knows what will happen when new recrational drugs are legalised. It'd be a huge trial of both how the drug is issued and the legislation behind use. That's a huge amount of money to be spent on an experiment with an unknown outcome.

[fowls]

so if less peope see it as a right to choose, then those people who do decide to use/try are naturally criminals?

Drugs are a part of every day life right now, from alcohol to tobacco, from weed to coke ect ect, The vast majority of users are not criminals and yet face losing not only their liberty but their jobs and homes for something they decide to injest into their own body.

As for the huge amounts of money spent on an experiment id say the amount wasted on other"experiments" by the powers that be are just as bad

It was announced today that over 9000 deaths occured last year in the UK related to alcohol, and yet the drinks industry is protected and howls the loudest when anyone suggests curbing its use or increasing the price, the biggest recreational drug in the world is sitting on your supermarket shelf right now and the government takes a big cut of the profits from it and to quote you..... "It's fun and does no harm" doesn't cut it......but our hypocrisy never fails to amaze me.

Edited January 28, 2010 by fowls

[DiscoDolly]

If alcohol is so bad, then why are you so eager to release other drugs to reach the same status? I agree with you, alcohol is damaging, but it's reached a point where it's engrained on the national (and international) psyche, there's no withdrawing it. To me, that means we have to be super careful about legalising/decriminalising other drugs, not that we should release all the other drugs that aren't as damaging as alcohol for the sake of not being hypocritical.

I'd say the government is concerned enough with binge drinking to be scared witless from legalising any other drug. Fair enough, the drug fighting war is swept under the carpet, but then they need to deal with the people taking excessive amounts of the newly legalised drug. There's plenty of data showing the nation can't be trusted to take drugs responsibly, and the deaths from alcohol is one of them.

[fowls]

The nation cant be trusted to act responsibly?......f**k me id never in a million years thought id read such a comment on these boards.

why not just batten down the hatches now and retreat into the totalitarian regime of those in power telling us what time to have a crap as well?

Edited January 28, 2010 by fowls

[pman]

The thing with this illegal/legal argument is that the term drugs covers a wide range of substances.

Some are genuinly pretty bad others not so & some pretty harmless.

I made the point before that drugs that allow people to develop themselves spiritually & emotionally are deemed by the powers to be a threat.

Alcohol keeps the general public in a slighly depressed stupor for the majority of their existance just how they like it.

If they are so concerned by the state of the drinking in this country why did they allow 24 licensing laws?

The American government freaked out in the sixties when Tim Leary was doing his rounds that they would not be able to keep their population under control if the usage continued hence why most of the drugs that are illegal now are.

What annoys me more is that i have used cannabis & other things fairly reguarly for 15odd years & during that time I have worked pretty consistenly, gained a levels, a Mech Eng degree, supprted for what will be a family of five in a weeks time(hopefully!!) if it is so bad for my mental/general health I dont see how I have arrived at where I am now. I generally think it has helped me through the shit times & enhanced the happy times.

Everything in moderation is the way to tackle this situation, decriminalisation & education is the way forward the sooner that govn't sort this out the better.

But the government must know best I guess? After all the are the ones who are spending our young lads lives & god know how much of our tax money fighting war that they started & cannot win - their decision making process is second to none.

P.

[amfy]

The problem with legalisation is that it can be quite a middle class argument. I guess, like Fowls, I'm just playing Devil's advocate because I probably personally do lean more towards legalisation, but experience does show me a flip side to my smug idealism.

Stats show that the most prolific group of drug users in society are students. They tend to use more drugs and a greater range of drugs than other social groupings as a whole.

BUT - most students then move on, and grow out of it to some extent or other. Many stop completely, many more cut down enough to enable them to go on and live the professional lifestyle they went to University to qualify for.

The problem lies with what we probably used to call the "working class" but which has becaome a misnomer because of the lack of work in this social group. I am talking about a group who don't have anything to get up for and don't feel they are ever likely to. These are the people who are at greatest risk of developing problematic drug use. My experience of being a drug worker tells me that the key to recovery is most often purely and simply "something to lose".

I'm sure we do mostly use drugs (if we do) responsibly on these boards - although some of us might have gone through phases when we didn't. We would appear to have a lifestyle that sustains Glastonbury tickets (and tents and travel and all those little comforts on the top tips thread) and of course - computers. So it's likely most of us are doing comparitively well, and have that "something to lose" that will pull most of us back from the edge if we wander too close to it. Legalisation may be just fine for us, but I do worry that it wouldn't be for everyone.

How many people do you think I see in drug services that get to do something as great as go to Glastonbury? Everyone here talks about mind expanding benefits, but for others, it just makes a narrow world smaller and smaller.

[Buddhafish]

The problem with legalisation is that it can be quite a middle class argument. I guess, like Fowls, I'm just playing Devil's advocate because I probably personally do lean more towards legalisation, but experience does show me a flip side to my smug idealism.

Stats show that the most prolific group of drug users in society are students. They tend to use more drugs and a greater range of drugs than other social groupings as a whole.

BUT - most students then move on, and grow out of it to some extent or other. Many stop completely, many more cut down enough to enable them to go on and live the professional lifestyle they went to University to qualify for.

The problem lies with what we probably used to call the "working class" but which has becaome a misnomer because of the lack of work in this social group. I am talking about a group who don't have anything to get up for and don't feel they are ever likely to. These are the people who are at greatest risk of developing problematic drug use. My experience of being a drug worker tells me that the key to recovery is most often purely and simply "something to lose".

I'm sure we do mostly use drugs (if we do) responsibly on these boards - although some of us might have gone through phases when we didn't. We would appear to have a lifestyle that sustains Glastonbury tickets (and tents and travel and all those little comforts on the top tips thread) and of course - computers. So it's likely most of us are doing comparitively well, and have that "something to lose" that will pull most of us back from the edge if we wander too close to it. Legalisation may be just fine for us, but I do worry that it wouldn't be for everyone.

How many people do you think I see in drug services that get to do something as great as go to Glastonbury? Everyone here talks about mind expanding benefits, but for others, it just makes a narrow world smaller and smaller.

[pman]

But do you not think it's ridiculous to criminalise those that already do not have "something to lose" because they want to try and get some relief from being skint/unemployed/homeless etc etc?

[amfy]

Yeah - I do get what you're saying - but I'm not talking about happy little trips here (of course it may start that way), I'm talking about whole lives down the pan - often taking their children with them.

There are people born into a setting that has forgotten how to aspire, but with a bit of support and guidance could remember. Some get there on their own but in too many cases, problematic drug use (not a bit of harmless escapism), ensures that they won't.

Seriously - DVTs, gangrene, spending your whole life in & out of jail (not for the use itself - for the crime that funds it), your family disowning you, losing your home - these aren't life enhancing experiences no matter how little you started with.

Legalisation of recreational drugs, and prescriptions for the harder ones could be OK - but it's a big risk for a lot of people - not us maybe - but a lot of people.

[DrWackadoodle]

Yeah - I do get what you're saying - but I'm not talking about happy little trips here (of course it may start that way), I'm talking about whole lives down the pan - often taking their children with them.

There are people born into a setting that has forgotten how to aspire, but with a bit of support and guidance could remember. Some get there on their own but in too many cases, problematic drug use (not a bit of harmless escapism), ensures that they won't.

Seriously - DVTs, gangrene, spending your whole life in & out of jail (not for the use itself - for the crime that funds it), your family disowning you, losing your home - these aren't life enhancing experiences no matter how little you started with.

Legalisation of recreational drugs, and prescriptions for the harder ones could be OK - but it's a big risk for a lot of people - not us maybe - but a lot of people.

[ukslim]

The answer is decriminalisation.

[DrWackadoodle]

Decriminalisation is not the answer. Legalisation is.

Why:

Because with decriminalisation, users are still breaking the law. It's just that the police have a policy of ignoring it. That's a daft state of affairs for a start.

Because with decriminalisation, production, wholesale and retail of drugs is still in the hands of organised criminals, so you still have the problems of big unregulated business run by nasty people with dubious morals. So - bloody turf wars, exploited workers, unreliable product, dealing to kids, encouraging addiction, etc.

Because with decriminalisation, there's still an interface between the decriminalised people and the criminals -- and people get sucked into that criminal world.

Bring the whole thing overground, and it would solve so many problems.

[ukslim]

Yeah - I do get what you're saying - but I'm not talking about happy little trips here (of course it may start that way), I'm talking about whole lives down the pan - often taking their children with them.

There are people born into a setting that has forgotten how to aspire, but with a bit of support and guidance could remember. Some get there on their own but in too many cases, problematic drug use (not a bit of harmless escapism), ensures that they won't.

Seriously - DVTs, gangrene, spending your whole life in & out of jail (not for the use itself - for the crime that funds it), your family disowning you, losing your home - these aren't life enhancing experiences no matter how little you started with.

Legalisation of recreational drugs, and prescriptions for the harder ones could be OK - but it's a big risk for a lot of people - not us maybe - but a lot of people.

[DrWackadoodle]

I don't know about anyone else, but I am not saying "Legalise drugs so everyone can take as much as they like". I'm saying "legalise drugs and let's take control of the problem".

[Collide]

Aparently there are two kinds my mate said? The power and the crystal ones, although I've only had the power one and he reckon it was well weaker than the crystal one?!

I'm assuming this is the crystal type one for the information on there:

http://www.mephedroneforsale.co.uk?

I thought the powered one was pretty strong though so who knows what that one does?!

[fezzyeads]

Aparently there are two kinds my mate said? The power and the crystal ones, although I've only had the power one and he reckon it was well weaker than the crystal one?!

I'm assuming this is the crystal type one for the information on there:

http://www.mephedroneforsale.co.uk?

I thought the powered one was pretty strong though so who knows what that one does?!

[Mahdnyw]

Always a good idea to check anything out on Erowid, its about as close to official research as you're going to get with these things.

[Mrs*E*]

my mates found with this stuff is that it doesn't last that long - (mybe an hour or so) and then frequently topping up, its surprising how quickly you can get through a small amount and how very moreish it is, also so easy to get..

[Katster]

The problem with legalisation is that it can be quite a middle class argument. I guess, like Fowls, I'm just playing Devil's advocate because I probably personally do lean more towards legalisation, but experience does show me a flip side to my smug idealism.

Stats show that the most prolific group of drug users in society are students. They tend to use more drugs and a greater range of drugs than other social groupings as a whole.

BUT - most students then move on, and grow out of it to some extent or other. Many stop completely, many more cut down enough to enable them to go on and live the professional lifestyle they went to University to qualify for.

The problem lies with what we probably used to call the "working class" but which has becaome a misnomer because of the lack of work in this social group. I am talking about a group who don't have anything to get up for and don't feel they are ever likely to. These are the people who are at greatest risk of developing problematic drug use. My experience of being a drug worker tells me that the key to recovery is most often purely and simply "something to lose".

I'm sure we do mostly use drugs (if we do) responsibly on these boards - although some of us might have gone through phases when we didn't. We would appear to have a lifestyle that sustains Glastonbury tickets (and tents and travel and all those little comforts on the top tips thread) and of course - computers. So it's likely most of us are doing comparitively well, and have that "something to lose" that will pull most of us back from the edge if we wander too close to it. Legalisation may be just fine for us, but I do worry that it wouldn't be for everyone.

How many people do you think I see in drug services that get to do something as great as go to Glastonbury? Everyone here talks about mind expanding benefits, but for others, it just makes a narrow world smaller and smaller.

Edited February 3, 2010 by Katster

[MrZigster]

It is questionable whether this stuff would even have entered the market were it not for prohibition.

[Katster]

It is questionable whether this stuff would even have entered the market were it not for prohibition.

[ivan]

It does not make for a romantic end to the evening

Climbing into bed

"I want my i pod ! "