UK Politics

[steviewevie]

5 minutes ago, pink_triangle said:

I think the truth is great if everyone signs up for it. However many accept labour to be the only honest party in a world where the others are allowed to say what they want. If I though that truth would be rewarded then great, unfortunately I don’t think labour going to the election talking about tax rises would be rewarded.

 

With this election approaching politicians of all parties are not telling the truth, they are trying to win votes. I accept that as politics and think who I want in power to make things better. 
 

To me Starmer making pledges to win the leadership the end justifies the means. The Labour Party constitution is about being a party of power. I felt RLB was a continuation of Corbynism which was happy being a party of opposition. I voted for Starmer knowing he wasn’t going to be a continuation of Corbyn. If others didn’t then maybe they were a bit naive.

 

It's not lies. It's doublethink.

[pink_triangle]

3 minutes ago, Nobody Interesting said:

 

So you are happy to vote for a party who you accept are telling lies? - so therefore you have no idea what the truth actually is and perhaps you might not like that truth but yet you voted for it........ to my logic that is a tad daft.

No I would be happy if we lived in a country where there was a party who had policies that completely reflected my views and an an electorate willing to vote for them. Then unfortunately reality hits and we start to think about how that coalition can be built to get the closest to what I want.

 

I voted for Starmer thinking he would move to the centre and improve labours electoral chances and he did. I am going to vote labour because I believe in power they will do some difficult things like tax increases that would be hard to sell to the electorate, especially when the Tory’s are claiming they won’t do any unpopular stuff.

 

Politicians have always struggled with the truth and the electorate as a whole probably don’t want to know thr difficult choices the trust brings. Of course if your happy to oppose forever there are no difficult choices to make.

[steviewevie]

 

[steviewevie]

Just now, pink_triangle said:

No I would be happy if we lived in a country where there was a party who had policies that completely reflected my views and an an electorate willing to vote for them. Then unfortunately reality hits and we start to think about how that coalition can be built to get the closest to what I want.

 

I voted for Starmer thinking he would move to the centre and improve labours electoral chances and he did. I am going to vote labour because I believe in power they will do some difficult things like tax increases that would be hard to sell to the electorate, especially when the Tory’s are claiming they won’t do any unpopular stuff.

 

Politicians have always struggled with the truth and the electorate as a whole probably don’t want to know thr difficult choices the trust brings. Of course if your happy to oppose forever there are no difficult choices to make.

I wish someone would be honest about the finances and not just say we're going to grow the economy and that will fix everything...frustrates the f**k out of me to be honest.

[charlierc]

21 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

 

 

Why is that this seems to work but when I tried to post Tweets in the main Glastonbury section, it needed mod approval and didn't display as a full Tweet, just showed a link?

 

There something I missed?

[steviewevie]

Just now, charlierc said:

Why is that this seems to work but when I tried to post Tweets in the main Glastonbury section, it needed mod approval and didn't display as a full Tweet, just showed a link?

 

There something I missed?

I don't know about the mod approval thing...but to get to display now you have to change x.com to twitter.com....in a particular way.

What I do is copy in link, change x.com to twitter.com, copy link, delete link, paste in copied link that has twitter.com in it, and hey presto. It's a bit of farting around but I post more than ever because I like to think I'm fighting against the system.

[charlierc]

Just tried to post something on another thread and got some aggressive marketing for the Tory platform, to go with a week of getting lots of Labour adverts on my Facebook, Instagram and YouTube. So I guess it's happening.

[charlierc]

1 minute ago, steviewevie said:

I don't know about the mod approval thing...but to get to display now you have to change x.com to twitter.com....in a particular way.

What I do is copy in link, change x.com to twitter.com, copy link, delete link, paste in copied link that has twitter.com in it, and hey presto. It's a bit of farting around but I post more than ever because I like to think I'm fighting against the system.

Interesting, so based on this, the theory is that the system on here is still configured for it to be Twitter hyperlinks rather than X hyperlinks.

 

That might explain it. And tbf, like they were expecting Twitter to self-sabotage with such an unnecessary and ill thought-out rebrand.

[steviewevie]

Thread about Tory-Lab/DK switcher focus group reactions to the whole Abbott thing...

 

...basically they didn't vote Labour in 2019 because of Corbyn...but don't like the way Starmer has treated Abbott...one of his own MPs. They have a point, she is in Labour...but at same time don't they know that Labour love to fight themselves.

[fraybentos1]

2 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

Thread about Tory-Lab/DK switcher focus group reactions to the whole Abbott thing...

 

...basically they didn't vote Labour in 2019 because of Corbyn...but don't like the way Starmer has treated Abbott...one of his own MPs. They have a point, she is in Labour...but at same time don't they know that Labour love to fight themselves.

I get why Starmer wants a party full of as many loyalists as he can but this whole thing seems very unnecessary. He could have just her stand. She gets no airtime now and would just be Hackney MP or whatever and win a big majority. She would do 1 more term max.

 

Like seriously who hears much from the left of the Labout party these days? I've not laid eyes on RLB in like 3 years for example. Also, it's fairly likely he wins a majority of like 100- does it really matter if 20 of his own lefty MPs hate him? Blair coped fine with that.

[lazyred]

4 minutes ago, Nobody Interesting said:

 

If Labour win and then raise taxes they will lose in 2029 as the Tories will have  a field day with it proving Labour lies and cannot be trusted

Tax rises are already in place in the current plans. There are lots of things Labour can do without raising the rates of income tax or VAT. They aren't lying just not telling the whole truth. You support the Greens and I'd argue they don't spell out the the impact of going carbon free.

 

 

[steviewevie]

 

[steviewevie]

Just now, lazyred said:

Tax rises are already in place in the current plans. There are lots of things Labour can do without raising the rates of income tax or VAT. They aren't lying just not telling the whole truth. You support the Greens and I'd argue they don't spell out the the impact of going carbon free.

 

 

Greens are kind of interesting...they have been very good at local campaigns...have to see how they do nationally. They obviously appeal to disillusioned left wing supporters, but also to tory/libdem rural voters who don't like poo in the rivers and don't want anything built on nearby fields etc., but aren't necessarily on board with what is required for the whole net zero transition. So, will they have an actual national policy pitch everywhere, or just carry on addressing local concerns?

[steviewevie]

24 minutes ago, fraybentos1 said:

I get why Starmer wants a party full of as many loyalists as he can but this whole thing seems very unnecessary. He could have just her stand. She gets no airtime now and would just be Hackney MP or whatever and win a big majority. She would do 1 more term max.

 

Like seriously who hears much from the left of the Labout party these days? I've not laid eyes on RLB in like 3 years for example. Also, it's fairly likely he wins a majority of like 100- does it really matter if 20 of his own lefty MPs hate him? Blair coped fine with that.

I think a lot of this is down to that Morgan McSweeney bloke. I read ages ago that he hates the left, wants them out of Labour. I don't think he will have as much influence once in power.

[lazyred]

1 minute ago, steviewevie said:

Greens are kind of interesting...they have been very good at local campaigns...have to see how they do nationally. They obviously appeal to disillusioned left wing supporters, but also to tory/libdem rural voters who don't like poo in the rivers and don't want anything built on nearby fields etc., but aren't necessarily on board with what is required for the whole net zero transition. So, will they have an actual national policy pitch everywhere, or just carry on addressing local concerns?

You can't protect the countryside and have onshore wind, solar farms and new pylons linking them to the grid. 

In my area a council ward that always had the biggest Conservative majority now has a Green Councillor. Hebden Bridge has a lot of Green supporters but there is local opposition to a wind farm on the nearby moors. They also picked up local Muslim voters because of Gaza but they won't agree with the Green LGBT policies.

They have a coalition that won't survive a big breakthrough but they can win a lot on local issues.

[pink_triangle]

1 hour ago, Nobody Interesting said:

 

If Labour win and then raise taxes they will lose in 2029 as the Tories will have  a field day with it proving Labour lies and cannot be trusted

There is more than one way to raise tax and I guess it will depend how they raise taxes and who is hit.

[steviewevie]

various centristy commentators who know sh*t saying that this Abbott is cutting through and not in a good way for Labour.

 

 

[lazyred]

4 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

I think a lot of this is down to that Morgan McSweeney bloke. I read ages ago that he hates the left, wants them out of Labour. I don't think he will have as much influence once in power.

For balance the article I read recently said he also hates the Blairites.

[pink_triangle]

32 minutes ago, fraybentos1 said:

I get why Starmer wants a party full of as many loyalists as he can but this whole thing seems very unnecessary. He could have just her stand. She gets no airtime now and would just be Hackney MP or whatever and win a big majority. She would do 1 more term max.

 

Like seriously who hears much from the left of the Labout party these days? I've not laid eyes on RLB in like 3 years for example. Also, it's fairly likely he wins a majority of like 100- does it really matter if 20 of his own lefty MPs hate him? Blair coped fine with that.

I agree I think he has been over cautious on this, completely understanding why he took the no tolerance approach to move on from Corbynism.  I do however suspect your average voter isn’t paying too much attention to

this.

[fraybentos1]

Just now, pink_triangle said:

I agree I think he has been over cautious on this, completely understanding why he took the no tolerance approach to move on from Corbynism.  I do however suspect your average voter isn’t paying too much attention to

this.

I don't think anyone is any doubt about that. Corbyn literally standing as an independent.

 

Nothing good comes of this imo, but then again I don't think it will be of much consequence electorally. Still makes it a bad thing to do morally, but who cares about that eh

[fraybentos1]

They're also missing a great chance in Chingford to boot out the massive prick that is IDS

[steviewevie]

1 minute ago, pink_triangle said:

I agree I think he has been over cautious on this, completely understanding why he took the no tolerance approach to move on from Corbynism.  I do however suspect your average voter isn’t paying too much attention to

this.

you keep saying this, but it has been the main news item for the last few days until Trump came along and ruined it. So it would have been on the main news on tv, it would have been on news items on radio shows, it would have been on the front pages of newspapers, and it would have been all over social media. Almost hard not to know about it, and it just looks like black female MP who has been around a long time being treated badly by Starmer.

[steviewevie]

5 minutes ago, lazyred said:

For balance the article I read recently said he also hates the Blairites.

I don't know about hate, but yes they have a different approach. More class based, more blue labourish. But it is the left, Corbyn's lot he really can't stand..sees them as self indulgent ideologues who prefer protest to power etc etc...and he wants them out. I think it will come back and bite them in the bum, but that is the strategy and Starmer obviously believes in this direction, or at least doesn't want to f**k it up considering they are so close to power.

[pink_triangle]

25 minutes ago, fraybentos1 said:

I don't think anyone is any doubt about that. Corbyn literally standing as an independent.

 

Nothing good comes of this imo, but then again I don't think it will be of much consequence electorally. Still makes it a bad thing to do morally, but who cares about that eh

I guess what you can’t measure is the indirect effect of the hardline approach for example is it stopping others in the socialist grouping tweeting stupid stuff in fear of losing their seats.

 

To me the best solution is to let Abbott stand in exchange for an endorsement for Starmer and move on. Whether any of it makes a difference who knows.

[pink_triangle]

25 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

you keep saying this, but it has been the main news item for the last few days until Trump came along and ruined it. So it would have been on the main news on tv, it would have been on news items on radio shows, it would have been on the front pages of newspapers, and it would have been all over social media. Almost hard not to know about it, and it just looks like black female MP who has been around a long time being treated badly by Starmer.

How about all the people who vote and don’t pay much attention to the news and are more interested in other stuff on social media?