Formula 1

[DareToDibble]

22 hours ago, Barry Fish said:

I do think - and its not just driven by this weekend - there should be a penalty for parking up and bringing out the safety car.  This "stop the car" stuff should be reserved for emergencies only.  If the car can make it back to the pits then it should.  If that causes issues to the engine etc then that is just the way the cookie crumbles.

I don't see why others should suffer so you can save an engine or gearbox.

As for the abuse directed at these people - its not okay.

I’ve actually thought similar in relation to your first point. Obviously driver safety is most important so wouldn’t want them continuing if there was a risk to them. But stopping the car and getting a lift back to the pits on the Marshall vehicle which most of the time results in a red flag in practice etc is frustrating.

I think the main issue is the spend cap, if teams can avoid paying out hundreds of thousands of £ by stopping the car I can see why they do it. Up to the FIA to come up with an alternative.

[charlierc]

On 9/6/2022 at 7:17 PM, Barry Fish said:

I do think - and its not just driven by this weekend - there should be a penalty for parking up and bringing out the safety car.  This "stop the car" stuff should be reserved for emergencies only.  If the car can make it back to the pits then it should.  If that causes issues to the engine etc then that is just the way the cookie crumbles.

I don't see why others should suffer so you can save an engine or gearbox.

As for the abuse directed at these people - its not okay.

 

On 9/7/2022 at 6:08 PM, DareToDibble said:

I’ve actually thought similar in relation to your first point. Obviously driver safety is most important so wouldn’t want them continuing if there was a risk to them. But stopping the car and getting a lift back to the pits on the Marshall vehicle which most of the time results in a red flag in practice etc is frustrating.

I think the main issue is the spend cap, if teams can avoid paying out hundreds of thousands of £ by stopping the car I can see why they do it. Up to the FIA to come up with an alternative.

I know that in IndyCar, causing a red flag in qualifying gets your lap times deleted, and a few in F1 circles endorsed this. How you would work it out in a race situation is a different problem.

This may well be as well a bigger thing to ask as it feels like the cars have generally been less reliable this year. Alfa Romeo seem to have a DNF every other race through their engines breaking down, for one.

[Guest]

Why does Max get a 5 place grid penalty and start 4th?

[charlierc]

Talking of grid penalties, 9 taking them at the Italian Grand Prix this weekend definitely makes it way too complex to work out and does give some odd things, like Magnussen and Schumacher getting penalties but starting ahead of their 19/20 starting berth due to other's sanctions. Almost like they don't learn given that in 2017, the same issue with half the grid taking penalties was going down.

Kudos as well to Nyck De Vries. Thrown in the car at short notice after Albon fell unwell, but outqualifies his team-mate and is gonna start his first ever F1 race in the top 10 after penalties applied.

[charlierc]

1 minute ago, Ozanne said:

Why does Max get a 5 place grid penalty and start 4th?

It's the complexity of nearly half the grid taking penalties. Same thing was seen at Spa a few weeks - Verstappen had a "back of the grid" penalty but so did 7 others so just started at the front of that group despite going pole.

People were saying back in 2017 this arrangement was ridiculous so I think something better will be needed to be figured out.

[Guest]

19 minutes ago, charlierc said:

It's the complexity of nearly half the grid taking penalties. Same thing was seen at Spa a few weeks - Verstappen had a "back of the grid" penalty but so did 7 others so just started at the front of that group despite going pole.

People were saying back in 2017 this arrangement was ridiculous so I think something better will be needed to be figured out.

Max has only had a 5 place penalty. Only he would then be allowed to start 4th.

It’s the Max show. 

[charlierc]

12 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

Max has only had a 5 place penalty. Only he would then be allowed to start 4th.

It’s the Max show. 

It's not just him. If we're looking at the same provisional grid, Perez has a 10 place penalty but is dropping from 4th to 10th, Ocon has a 5 place drop but is only going from 11th to 12th, while the two Haas guys qualified 19th/20th and have a 15 place penalty each but are starting 16th/17th. Similar to Belgium 2 weeks back, when Bottas started 12th despite qualifying 20th and having a grid penalty. Nine people having penalties at the same time fucks up the way this thing is calculated.

It's a system that needs changing. Or at least a limit on how many people can take penalties at the same race.

Edited September 10, 2022 by charlierc

[Guest]

35 minutes ago, charlierc said:

It's not just him. If we're looking at the same provisional grid, Perez has a 10 place penalty but is dropping from 4th to 10th, Ocon has a 5 place drop but is only going from 11th to 12th, while the two Haas guys qualified 19th/20th and have a 15 place penalty each but are starting 16th/17th. Similar to Belgium 2 weeks back, when Bottas started 12th despite qualifying 20th and having a grid penalty. Nine people having penalties at the same time fucks up the way this thing is calculated.

It's a system that needs changing. Or at least a limit on how many people can take penalties at the same race.

If I start 1st in a race and am docked 5 places I start 6th. But not golden boy Max. It’s not even hidden anymore. 

[charlierc]

1 hour ago, Ozanne said:

If I start 1st in a race and am docked 5 places I start 6th. But not golden boy Max. It’s not even hidden anymore. 

You may wanna hold back on this litany of complaints as some sources actually think he is being docked the full 5 places and will start P7. There seem to be about a dozen different grids doing the rounds. Only things that seem settled is a top 3 of Leclerc, Russell and Norris, and a bottom 5 of Magnussen, Schumacher, Sainz, Hamilton and Tsunoda.

Little wonder this feels relevant...

 

[Guest]

15 minutes ago, charlierc said:

You may wanna hold back on this litany of complaints as some sources actually think he is being docked the full 5 places and will start P7. There seem to be about a dozen different grids doing the rounds. Only things that seem settled is a top 3 of Leclerc, Russell and Norris, and a bottom 5 of Magnussen, Schumacher, Sainz, Hamilton and Tsunoda.

Little wonder this feels relevant...

 

He’ll start pole minus 8

[Guest]

I feel for Leclerc, he’s on pole for Ferrari’s home race but he’s up against the luck of Max, he’s doomed.

[charlierc]

1 hour ago, Ozanne said:

I feel for Leclerc, he’s on pole for Ferrari’s home race but he’s up against the luck of Max, he’s doomed.

Eh, I don't think it's Max's luck being good so much as Leclerc's being abysmal. I can think of at least 6 races where better luck would have taken a big bite out of Verstappen's lead. Though I had very low expectations for Ferrari after their poor performance at Spa, yet here, they're actually faster than Red Bull in a straight line, which for Monza is a big requirement.

Verstappen belatedly confirmed as P7 by F1, so the full 5 places back. That complaint can therefore be binned off.

[Guest]

12 hours ago, charlierc said:

Eh, I don't think it's Max's luck being good so much as Leclerc's being abysmal. I can think of at least 6 races where better luck would have taken a big bite out of Verstappen's lead. Though I had very low expectations for Ferrari after their poor performance at Spa, yet here, they're actually faster than Red Bull in a straight line, which for Monza is a big requirement.

Verstappen belatedly confirmed as P7 by F1, so the full 5 places back. That complaint can therefore be binned off.

That’s my point Lelerc’s luck is appalling because he’s going up against the chosen one.

[charlierc]

27 minutes ago, Barry Fish said:

Russel is in a great position to get his first win today.  Go George !!

Eh I'd feel more confident if they were at a Singapore or Suzuka like track with lots of twisty bits and difficulty overtaking due to it. The Mercedes is just slower than Ferrari and Red Bull in a straight line (even if the Max attack will be a bit delayed by virtue of him starting P7). Even if Monza is surprisingly difficult to overtake on.

[charlierc]

1 hour ago, Ozanne said:

That’s my point Lelerc’s luck is appalling because he’s going up against the chosen one.

It's not. Until the Spanish Grand Prix, Leclerc was leading the championship and barring one error at Imola when chasing P2, looked like he might be a big challenger. Then his engine blew up when on for an easy win in Barcelona while Verstappen was having a strange race with a dodgy DRS and an early spin but inherited P1 as a result. From there, it's just been one Ferrari fuck-up after another, culminating in Hungary where they gave him a tyre they flat out knew did not work on that track and at that point it was just "Yeah, he's not winning the title".

A race win for him would be nice though. The Tifosi usually go wild for a Ferrari win, as they did when Leclerc did it in 2019. Though I'd love a wildcard winner again like Gasly and Ricciardo in the last 2 visits.

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, charlierc said:

It's not. Until the Spanish Grand Prix, Leclerc was leading the championship and barring one error at Imola when chasing P2, looked like he might be a big challenger. Then his engine blew up when on for an easy win in Barcelona while Verstappen was having a strange race with a dodgy DRS and an early spin but inherited P1 as a result. From there, it's just been one Ferrari fuck-up after another, culminating in Hungary where they gave him a tyre they flat out knew did not work on that track and at that point it was just "Yeah, he's not winning the title".

A race win for him would be nice though. The Tifosi usually go wild for a Ferrari win, as they did when Leclerc did it in 2019. Though I'd love a wildcard winner again like Gasly and Ricciardo in the last 2 visits.

That’s what I mean all these things going wrong for Lelerc are partly because he’s going up against the luckiest man in the world. He’s realising know that it’s so difficult to beat Max. 

[Crazyfool01]

Amazing first lap driving from max 

[Crazyfool01]

3 minutes ago, Barry Fish said:

Is it too much to expect someone to put up a bit of a defence at any point 😆 

It’s all a plan to help max 

[fraybentos1]

1 minute ago, Crazyfool01 said:

It’s all a plan to help max 

😂😂😂

Ozanne certainly does have his favourites and his villains eh 

[Guest]

Good to see they stick to the safety car rules here.

Pretty dull race all in all. 

[charlierc]

32 minutes ago, Barry Fish said:

Race was fine finishing behind the safety car.  It's utterly normal.  I wish sky would shut the fuck up moaning 

Maybe we were spoiled by Abu Dhabi and the priority being given to a restart whether it was by the book or not, or by Azerbaijan 2021, when Verstappen crashed out at a similar distance to the end and the response was a red flag followed by an effective 2 lap mini-race at the end.

It is what it is. I think they could've got Ricciardo's car out of the way and a 1 lap of racing at the end, but clearly that McLaren just didn't wanna budge. Either that or Ferrari fans all booing it has lead to it being the focus. I dunno.

[charlierc]

Christian Horner didn't seem terribly happy to win under safety car conditions either, based on his remarks: F1 fans robbed of 'grandstand finish' at Italian GP - Horner - The Race (the-race.com)

Though some would argue he's covering base after the let's call it interesting ending to Abu Dhabi last year. But is consistent tbf, given we've had 2/3 episodes where Red Bull won a race but seemed to have hoped for more of a fight with Ferrari before Ferrari did something that ruined their own race.

Not that I'd call this one such a case - they tried something that has worked for Hamilton and Verstappen in the past, but didn't have the pace to pull it off before Ricciardo's breakdown and a few mis-steps by safety car clearing protocol neutralised things. That and as Verstappen had new softs while Leclerc was on used, it might well have just been that Verstappen would've done enough to win a one-lap shootout anyway.

Edited September 11, 2022 by charlierc

[charlierc]

I think more than 21 races is too much. This feels excessive, and would be moreso if we got a season like this one where one driver is just dominating.

Edited September 21, 2022 by charlierc

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, charlierc said:

I think more than 21 races is too much. This feels excessive, and would be moreso if we got a season like this one where one driver is just dominating.

That is so stacked. Too many tbh, cut away some of the street races. 

[Guest]

F1 teams aren’t happy with the FIA for releasing the race calendar without getting their approval or even letting them know beforehand. The FIA are so mindblowingly incompetent.