General Election 2015

[LJS]

So, GERS is published, and Scotland would have to have a 15% cut in public services in order to make the SNP policy of "full fiscal autonomy" work.

Is there anyone in Scotland who slags off the smaller tory-cutting plans who wants to vote themselves a bigger cut in services?

Or will they keep telling themselves lies, and that even the SNP are lying to them?

My main response to this is on the dirtindy thread but the summary of my position is that any one year's statistics are irrelevant to the case for fiscal autonomy. As Neil knows there have been years where Scotland's financial position has been better than the UK. The whole point is that given control of all the financial levers in Scotland, & by tailoring policies to the needs of the Scottish economy, (& not having to factor in stuff like the crazy London housing market or the needs of the City) we can do a better job. Edited March 12, 2015 by LJS

[LJS]

Interesting to see Dave suggesting a debate with Alex Salmond. Sounds good to me

[russycarps]

15% cut!!!!!!!

I hope everyone who campaigned for yes are hanging their head in shame. Especially those who tried to convince the undecided via lies and obfuscation.

[LJS]

15% cut!!!!!!!

I hope everyone who campaigned for yes are hanging their head in shame. Especially those who tried to convince the undecided via lies and obfuscation.

No

[LJS]

Let's face it LJS, even if this doesn't apply to you personally, the main reason so many in Scotland might vote SNP is because they're still fighting the war they've just lost, and unthinkingly hope that they can restart the war and win via returning SNP MPs.

It's got so fucking ridiculous too, with claims of "how dare you say that our choice of MPs won't be accepted" - completely forgetting that a large minority of MPs are not acceptable to any govt, and that there's no rule that says that can't also be a majority that happens to.

And so very laughable, the "majority" those people will scream they now have will be via the system they say they despise, proving them as always self-interested in the position they take (rather than principle-driven) as the worst tory.

Meanwhile, back at the ranch, the real prospect of indie is much further away than it was with September's vote. The economic argument has collapsed, and September's vote showed that Scotland will not countenance voting itself poorer.

I completely disagree with this. The current monstering of Scotland & the SNP will harden pro Indy support in Scotland & decrease support for holding on to Scotland south of the border. The longer this goes on the sooner we shall be independent.

[eFestivals]

As Neil knows there have been years where Scotland's financial position has been better than the UK.

only in years where the deficit has been so large (in Scotland as well as England) the deficit is unsustainable.

If you think pointing at an unsustainable deficit shows scotkand ina good light, I

suggest some studying of economics.

The whole point is that given control of all the financial levers in Scotland, & by tailoring policies to the needs of the Scottish economy, (& not having to factor in stuff like the crazy London housing market or the needs of the City) we can do a better job.

Does it ever occur to you that every country in the world is trying to create a much better economy for itself, and every one of those countries is failing to be as successful as hoped?

[eFestivals]

No

Then have the bottle to campaign for indie on the basis of the truth, a 15% cut in Scottish public services.

Rather than trying to get victory by deceiving your countrymen with lies.

[eFestivals]

I completely disagree with this. The current monstering of Scotland & the SNP will harden pro Indy support in Scotland & decrease support for holding on to Scotland south of the border. The longer this goes on the sooner we shall be independent.

If pro-indy is increasing, it's down to delusion or lies. The same people who you reckon will happily vote themselves 15% poorer are screaming like banshees about a mere 5% cut in public spending.

Only when people are prepared to campaign using the financial reality and not lies will indie ever start to win the argument. An argument is never won using lies.

[feral chile]

Michael Sheen:

'There IS such a thing as society'

https://youtu.be/jikATY0HOxs

[Ted Dansons Wig]

Good on Nigel Farage and his views on the repeal of race discrimination!

Its about time somebody stood up for the views of the xenophobic bigoted idiots out there.

[feral chile]

More dribble...

You think an impassioned plea to save the NHS, and for politicians to stop pandering to opinion polls and speak out for what they believe in...

And a condemnation of career politics, and self interest....

And a society that fails to protect the most vulnerable (who can be any of us, in the wrong circumstances)

is dribble?

Edited March 12, 2015 by feral chile

[eFestivals]

To be fair to him he didn't really say much different than Gordon Brown did a few years ago.... "British jobs for British workers" Unlike Brown he just went further and actually put some meat behind the comment... Which I respect more than the empty rhetoric and pandering Brown did....

From what I could make out he is suggesting removing the "national origins" bit from the race discrimination act. Its not really bigoted to suggest that....

FFS!!!

Racism is OK in Barry's eyes.

Why not just say so clearly Barry? Why hide behind Farage, and deliberately mis-represent what Brown said?

Edited March 12, 2015 by eFestivals

[Ted Dansons Wig]

To be fair to him he didn't really say much different than Gordon Brown did a few years ago.... "British jobs for British workers" Unlike Brown he just went further and actually put some meat behind the comment... Which I respect more than the empty rhetoric and pandering Brown did....

From what I could make out he is suggesting removing the "national origins" bit from the race discrimination act. Its not really bigoted to suggest that....

Seriously? And you don't think the potential repercussions might support the return to legitimizing exactly what the legislation is there to stop?

[krisskross]

To be fair to him he didn't really say much different than Gordon Brown did a few years ago.... "British jobs for British workers" Unlike Brown he just went further and actually put some meat behind the comment... Which I respect more than the empty rhetoric and pandering Brown did....

From what I could make out he is suggesting removing the "national origins" bit from the race discrimination act. Its not really bigoted to suggest that....

Huh?!?

How is that in any way not racist? I'm not employing you cos your from Pakistan, its not because you have brown skin its just we only hire people from commonwealth countries...i mean the white English speaking ones like Canada and Australia...

edit: *I have a feeling my sarcasm filter is faulty...* on with today and back to work...

Edited March 12, 2015 by krisskross

[Ted Dansons Wig]

More dribble...

Man speaks with passion. You might not agree with him or his hyperbolic delivery - but he's engaging normal people in a political discussion and theres fuck all of that going on anywhere else.

[feral chile]

It was dribble...

http://www.theguardian.com/culture/2015/mar/02/michael-sheen-defends-nhs-against-bland-politicians?CMP=share_btn_fb

He said: “In today’s political climate, where politicians are careful, tentative, scared of saying what they feel for fear ... all political parties drift into a morass of bland neutrality and the real values we suspect are kept behind closed doors. Is it any wonder that people feel there is little to choose between?”

He quoted Bevan saying that those who stayed in the middle of the road get run over.

Sheen appeared to plead directly to the Labour leadership. “You must stand up for what you believe, but first of all, by God, believe in something,” he said.

Sheen also attacked austerity and the political consensus about the effectiveness of market solutions. He asked: “Do we want to be a society that is exploitative, that sees people as commodities, as numbers, and mere instruments of profit? Or do we want to be a society where each person is recognised, where all are equal in worth and value – where that value is not purely a monetary one?”

He went on to stand up for those on benefits. “Do we want to be a society that is supportive, that is inclusive and compassionate, where it is acknowledged that not all can prosper, where those who are most vulnerable, most in need of help, are not seen as lazy or scrounging or robbing the rest of us for whatever they can get? Where we do not turn our backs on those facing hard times, we do not abandon them or exploit their weakness, because they are us.

“We leave no one behind, we only say we have crossed the finished line when the last of us does, because no one is alone and there is such a thing as society.”

I'd vote for him.

Edited March 12, 2015 by feral chile

[Ted Dansons Wig]

Huh?!?

How is that in any way not racist? I'm not employing you cos your from Pakistan, its not because you have brown skin its just we only hire people from commonwealth countries...i mean the white English speaking ones like Canada and Australia...

White Man wanted to fill position. Blacks need not apply.

[russycarps]

Oh look, barry's making a tit of himself again.

[Ted Dansons Wig]

I think there is the potential for that... Did I at any point say otherwise ?

I was going to respond this. Then I noted your response to KrisKross. I bow out trying to argue against someone who thinks like that.

[krisskross]

I am though grown up enough to recognise that discriminating against someone on the ground of nationality is different than discriminating against someone based on the race. I am also grown up enough to realsie a lot of British companies are shitting on the young at the moment. Refusing to train them and instead picking up cheap employment from elsewhere (not just EU, but outside of the EU). I think we need to think about how we encourage British business to invest into British people.

Given that there is a massive correlation between race and nationality, they're essentially the same thing. It'd be easy to put in something like 'we accept applications from UK, USA, NZ, AUS, .. , Western European Countries only'.

Its just saying, we've missed the boat on you foreigners that are already here, but we can stop your family from coming.

[eFestivals]

I am though grown up enough to recognise that discriminating against someone on the ground of nationality is different than discriminating against someone based on the race.

in British law it is not.

You used to say that all laws are beyond question, and should always be obeyed. Does that only apply when you think it should now?

Edited March 12, 2015 by eFestivals

[Ted Dansons Wig]

Thinks like what ? Stop being a pussy and debate....

Nah. Not with you. Life's too short. If that means you label me a pussy - fine

[eFestivals]

I am also grown up enough to realsie a lot of British companies are shitting on the young at the moment. Refusing to train them and instead picking up cheap employment from elsewhere (not just EU, but outside of the EU). I think we need to think about how we encourage British business to invest into British people.

so you think those nasty people who pursue only profit would be nicer is they were also racist as an extra part to their nastiness?

We've got to the point where companies - and even the NHS - won't train the people they need because of a neoliberal economic agenda where profit is all. It's that and only that which needs addressing, via a greater social agenda.

I think you need to grow up a bit Neil...

says the man advocating racism, tho he's only advocating that after the neoliberal agenda he's championed for 10 years or more has fucked the country so much that he sees racism as the solution to his fuck-up over neoliberalism.

Ed is a commie who shouldn't be allowed to lead the country because he "weird", and racism is the solution on the UK problems? You really are thick as pigshit Barry.

[krisskross]

Well the first thing to point out is the Commonwealth contains many countries with people with a different shade than white...

Secondly your whole post injects a lot of thing which where never said by anyone. Its your knee jerk immediate interpertation of what Farage has said. I can't debate that with you because its all YOU and your take on many things other than what has been said.

What we can debate is the idea of discriminating based on national origins.

That means the white Christian German, the white Christian Polish guy, our Hindu Brother from India, the white Christian guy in Pakistan, and the Muslim from Nigera can all be looked over in favor of the British Muslim guy, or the British Christian looking at the same job. That is national discrimination and its not bigoted or racist if applied equally in this manner.

What would be "racist" would be to say I will not accept any Muslim for this job. So that would rule out the British Muslim.

I am NOT saying its what we should do. I just think jumping up and down shouting racist isn't only thick, its childish....

But then its just as easy to go;

That means the Hindu Brother from India, the white Christian guy in Pakistan, and the Muslim from Nigera can all be looked over in favor of the British Muslim guy, the white Christian German, the white Christian Polish guy or the British Christian looking at the same job. That is national discrimination and its not bigoted or racist if applied equally in this manner.

Given the proportion of the population that are white in Pakistan is under 1%, its easier to rule the few out to not get any applicants you don't want. Not that as soon as adverts had nationalities listed it would discourage anyone of other races from applying because the intent of the advert.

[eFestivals]

There is so much stupid in this its beyond reply!

says the man whose own stupidity has him not knowing what UK law is.