the elephant in the room... climate change

[eFestivals]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-25944823

I know isolated events have happened before, and this could just be a statistical blip. How many blips does it take before anything is done.

Thing is, if you monitor weather events for long enough, sooner or later they'll be a new record. So by itself, a new record being set means nothing at all.

All this shoring up the river banks and coastal areas, just seems like King Canute.

Very true. But I think part of the problem is human nature, because us humans are very happy to keep taking short-term decisions which we know for certain are against our long term best interests.

[kaosmark2]

Very true. But I think part of the problem is human nature, because us humans are very happy to keep taking short-term decisions which we know for certain are against our long term best interests.

[Guest]

I tend to dislike assumptions about human nature.

I'd say it's more government nature. Government's are more interested in solutions which will resolve in whatever's left of their 5 years in power, than look longer term and potentially have that other lot take the credit (see Boris Bikes and how he's claimed for half of Ken's transport improvements).

[eFestivals]

I tend to dislike assumptions about human nature.

I'd say it's more government nature.

That's a cop-out. How does the govt get there?

Yes, perhaps govts manage to manipulate people into a particular point of view, but that's ignoring all personal responsibility for the knowledge you have or can gain, your thoughts on that knowledge and the conclusions you can draw from it. Are you of your own mind, or not?

If you want to go along the same logical line as you've suggested there, then you might as well go the whole hog and say that racism can be caused by being drunk (as some have claimed with "sorry for being racist, but I was drunk").

[eFestivals]

I think this is it. The politicians are either stupid or their ambition blinds them (which to me, also makes them stupid.. so they're stupid). They can't look ahead further than the next election. That's why Cameron is crowing about the latest (meaningless) economy figures. And Milliband doesn't seem to have one original idea in his head.

I'd say that's 'ignorant mainstreamism' - which is what our govts now deliver no matter who is in power - is an inevitable consequence of our FPTP electoral system.

If good ideas are unpopular for selfish reasons, they just ain't going to happen.

But ultimately, you cannot escape from the fact that the population allows all of this to happen.

[mrtourette]

nobody seems to talk about the real possible consequences of climate change. All they say is things will get worse, never how much worse. There are two probable reasons for this, one is they're not sure how bad it might get, the other is they don't want to cause panic.

Oh there's another one, they don't know how to sell it to the voters. Which I imagine would be the main one. Look at ALL the fuckwits just skirting round the edges, with some absolute arses (hi Dave!) even rolling back some of the things that were in place.

It doesn't feel very gradual right now. That mad event in America where the Polar vortex went for a wander, the unprecedented rain, and not just here. The drought in America. The way the weather changes from mild to freezing and back again, sometimes in a couple of days. I've never experienced that before. If crops get affected any more, if the coasts get more bashings from storms, if the weather gets worse - which seems almost inevitable - it might get worse faster... these are the things that worry me. And I'm an optimist, generally.

[5co77ie]

none of that explains the amounts of rain that have been falling, and other extreme weather

Edited January 30, 2014 by 5co77ie

[russycarps]

Tony I recommend you watch this science documentary called the day after tomorrow. Terrifying stuff.

[Guest]

Tony I recommend you watch this science documentary called the day after tomorrow. Terrifying stuff.

Edited January 30, 2014 by tonyblair

[Guest]

I'm not sure who 'they' is, but there's plenty of information around regarding real possible consequences. If you're only looking to the governement to give you your information then yeah you're going to be feeling a little left out. You're right that nobody knows the exact consequences or timescales but people are always talking about it.

It might not feel gradual to you personally right now, but it's not like the last couple of months things have suddenly changed and like I said in the greater scheme of things it's fuck all. Yes the weather has generally become more unpredictable and severe in places over the last few years but I don't think we need to head for the underground bunkers yet.

Hopefully though such events will encourage people to take it a bit more seriously andd search out the information.

[mrtourette]

Well I don't think that last sentence has ever been in doubt.

[5co77ie]

Do you believe that climate change, caused by us, isn't happening?

[Guest]

No, absolutely not. As I said I did geography I'm well aware of climate change and it's massive impact within the tropics, however we are outside the main area of impact and whilst our weather is getting more random it's not expected to get particularly different until the middle of the equator is pretty much toast, at which point the rainforest will be gone and this planet will be pretty tough to live on.

Edited January 30, 2014 by tonyblair

[LondonTom]

you are Nigel Farange and I claim my five pounds.

Edited January 30, 2014 by LondonTom

[kaosmark2]

That's a cop-out. How does the govt get there?

Yes, perhaps govts manage to manipulate people into a particular point of view, but that's ignoring all personal responsibility for the knowledge you have or can gain, your thoughts on that knowledge and the conclusions you can draw from it. Are you of your own mind, or not?

If you want to go along the same logical line as you've suggested there, then you might as well go the whole hog and say that racism can be caused by being drunk (as some have claimed with "sorry for being racist, but I was drunk").

[viberunner]

The good news about AGW is it will rid much of the planet of humanity.

Nature survives mass extinctions quite well. In thirty million years this planet will be a lush, diverse, man-free, paradise. (Again).

[eFestivals]

The good news about AGW is it will rid much of the planet of humanity.

I think 'all' is more likely.

Think about it. We won't end up with a HHGTTG scenario where it's the pointless and useless who are discarded.

Instead it'll be them in charge of things, and saving themselves at the expensive of everyone else. Only too late will they discover that they're not the most talented people on the planet after all.

[Spindles]

I think we are already there. The 40 somethings who are now leading government, civil service and major corporate departments in this country are the children of Thatcher's generation, selfish, greedy, short sighted and bull headed. The best hope is that the generations that follow learn the lessons of these idiots and start to make amends.

Consume less. That's my motto.

[eFestivals]

they should feel no entitlement to a state pension

Erm, they paid in with a promise of a pension.

But hey, if you'd paid for something which wasn't delivered then you'd smile happily about it, eh?

[eFestivals]

Moneys gone... Simple fact...

No it hasn't.

It's being robbed by people like you, who say "it's gone" in the hope you can fool people more stupid than you.

I didn't see you as someone who would stand up for wealthy pensioners getting state support when they don't need it

I'm standing up for the rights of pensioners to collect on what they paid into with an absolute guarantee.

If their private pension company has gone bust, I'm happy for them to suffer those capitalist losses.

[eFestivals]

They have / had no more guarantee than I have I will have a pension when I retire...

The guarantee is there and the money is there.

Those will only disappear if the greedy encourage the govt to instead put the money in their bank accounts now.

Remember, what you read in Money Week was complete and utter bollocks.

Edited January 31, 2014 by eFestivals

[eFestivals]

The money they put in has been spent... That is my point...

yes, in reality it has.

And the reason why the exact same situation cannot continue indefinitely is because...?

There is none.

They are no more entitled to a state pension than I was to child benefit You either don't get it or you are a thicko

awww, is poor little overpaid diddums pissed off that he's now less of a welfare scrounger than he used to be?

My heart bleeds. If the welfare system is financially stretched - and people much like you are the ones who ensure that it is stretched (it doesn't need to be) - then surely the savings should be made from those who have the means to manage without that state support and not those who are already around the poverty line?

I would prefer a universal system, but working from reality, why is it that the richest benefit scroungers scream the loudest when their own ideas are applied to them?

[eFestivals]

You are an idiot and I claim my £5

PMSL.

So do please tell me why the current state pension arrangement cannot continue indefinitely...?

Edited January 31, 2014 by eFestivals

[Yoghurt on a Stick]

Its been really interesting to hear you stand up for the entitlement of the rich to have a pension Champaign Socialist ?

[Spindles]

If someone has paid into the system all their lives then they deserve to reap the rewards, regardless of their current income and even less because the selfish generation beneath them has decided they can't afford it. Every sane person has said for some time that the pensioners would be the next group to be turned on and clearly the government and media have been walking the bigoted and gullible towards that point.

Whether, in the future, we as a nation decide to means test the state pension is another discussion, but for those who have paid in we cannot just tell them they can't have the money that they have been paying in all their working lives. I actually agree with means testing pensions in principle, but fully understand that the complexities of this make it incredibly difficult (if not impossible, if it costs more to administer than it saves).

Why are we talking about pensions in a climate change thread?