the elephant in the room... climate change

[Guest]

Is anyone else worried about what's happening with the weather? Not just here, but everywhere. I can't shake the feeling that change has started, and if it's due to us fucking up the system, it's unlikely it'll be a momentary blip, and the chances are, what we are experiencing is just the beginning of worse things to come.

It almost feels like, if this is what's happening, then it's best not to talk about it, because the possible consequences are too bad to consider.

Just a thought ....

[WS_Jack_III]

An Elephant in a room is weird but I dunno if we can call it proof of climate change.

[WS_Jack_III]

Oh and the weather is that of biblical rain fall due to the PM allowing gays to get married, don't you watch the news?

[Guest]

so everything's fine?

good

[russycarps]

the flooding in this country is down to tory policy, not climate change.

[Guest]

the flooding in this country is down to tory policy, not climate change.

Edited January 29, 2014 by tonyblair

[russycarps]

that's one of the more 'comforting' explanations.

I hope you're right

how about the weather in America?

[WS_Jack_III]

so everything's fine?

good

[Spindles]

While there are some obvious problems with much of the climate change argument, such as ignoring the fact that the density of the data follows the same curve as the conclusions drawn or the focussing on a single greenhouse gas as a be all and end all, it would be a foolish man who denied that man's intervention has, is and will effect the climate greatly.

From the moment we started partitioning land, cutting down trees and planting hedgerows we have been affecting the way that the rivers of air that we live amongst travel, large towns and cities only compound this. Just altering the landscape through building has an effect, and all this is before we take burning fossil fuels, etc into account.

[zero000]

I think you're right Tony unfortunately. There was a study suggesting this might be the case not long ago (2012) "Study forecasts global increase in freak weather" :

http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/climate-change/study-forecasts-global-increase-in-freak-weather-7932515.html

The problem is, is that it's very hard to prove that climate change is causing these freak weather events to happen more frequently, it's the old correlation vs causation problem. Because of this the research is swept under the rug and ignored.

[grumpyhack]

the flooding in this country is down to tory policy, not climate change.

[russycarps]

They haven't been in power long enough for that too hold true....

[Spindles]

They haven't been in power long enough for that too hold true....

[grumpyhack]

Great exploration of the consequences of 1 - 6 degrees of warming produced by National Geographic.

[mrtourette]

Not sure why climate change is an elephant in the room, it's been discussed to death. Everyone must be aware of it.

If you're on about this current bad weather being an indication of climate change 'starting', then i) it's already started, ii) it was and will continue to be incredibly gradual so it's unlikely one specific localised event can be pointed and and labelled as 'climate change', and ii) the current weather ain't that bad in the great scheme of things.

Edited January 30, 2014 by mrtourette

[eFestivals]

Is anyone else worried about what's happening with the weather? Not just here, but everywhere. I can't shake the feeling that change has started, and if it's due to us fucking up the system, it's unlikely it'll be a momentary blip, and the chances are, what we are experiencing is just the beginning of worse things to come.

It almost feels like, if this is what's happening, then it's best not to talk about it, because the possible consequences are too bad to consider.

Just a thought ....

Don't worry too much, in 2010 we voted in a govt that promised to be "the greenest govt ever".

I wonder how that's working out?

David Cameron to rip up green regulations (Monday 27 January 2014)

Oh dear.

Edited January 30, 2014 by eFestivals

[eFestivals]

the flooding in this country is down to tory policy, not climate change.

Nah, it's down to the Common Agricultural Policy and how it rewards farmers for chop down trees and hedges, etc.

Dredging will not stop the flooding, it will only mean that any flooding is able to subside more quickly than currently.

What is needed are policies which stop all of the rainwater arriving on the plains from the hills almost immediately following any rain. And that means trees and hedges and un-straightening straightened waterways and the like on all of the land above the plains so that the water takes much longer to arrive on the plains.

And so those Somerset farmers who are screaming "dredge" at the govt need to also spend time screaming 'fools' at themselves and those who share their profession. They have caused the problem far more than govt inaction in regard to dredging.

[Spindles]

What is needed are policies which stop all of the rainwater arriving on the plains from the hills almost immediately following any rain. And that means trees and hedges and un-straightening straightened waterways and the like on all of the land above the plains so that the water takes much longer to arrive on the plains.

And so those Somerset farmers who are screaming "dredge" at the govt need to also spend time screaming 'fools' at themselves and those who share their profession. They have caused the problem far more than govt inaction in regard to dredging.

[5co77ie]

It's not really an elephant in the room, climate change and flooding are two slightly different problems.

When I did geagraphy in school we were taught that tarmacing wide areas, and removing tree cover would lead to flooding - simple. we were also taught that building on a flood plain means you're building where it's more likely to flood.

There are three main problems operating in the west Country - firstly farming practices have changed leading to more soil stripping, and secondly rich bastards have managed to get housing built in dodgy areas (usually with nice views on coastal plains) through the relaxing of planning laws. Thirdly public spending on environmental services like dredging has been slashed.

However the reason many areas aren't dredged anymore (like the Exe river basin) is that the rich housing barons have seen flood defences built to protect their expensive coastal properties - these flood defences protect valuable (built on land) at the expense of arable land.

In the case of Somerset, it was drained by Dutch engineers in the 60s as part of an ambitious plan to take the land (which for much of the year was underwater) and make it suitable for farming. However the plan was never to build housing on the flood plains of the major rivers along the coasts. If the water courses were dredged this would result in these areas flooding. So, there's never going to be an adequate solution.

The final problem is whilst i with my comprehensive education was taught this geography, it would appear those with an expensive private education didn't get one, and many of the rich landowners in the South west just don't understand the problem, due to a lack of education.

Also, whilst many of those who have lived on the land for generations know how best to protect it from flooding, many of those commuting to London do not, and as they're houses are only used for a couple of weeks a year, removed their grass gardens in favour of faster draining low maintenance grounds.

As for climate change, again my with my normal education was taught about climate change, the benefits of renewables, agircultural management and the like. however the rich who run the country wernt to what are effectively finishing schools and learnt how to be MPs and captains of industry, not the basics. So, they don't believe any of it, and their ears are bent by the big money of those who lobby them for oil, and frakking and the like.

What better example than the fact they're all up for shale gas in rural areas - the only major problem with that the damage to the water table - do you see where that's going? It only provides gas for 50 years (if that's not short term, money grabbing posh thinking then I have no idea what is)!

[Guest]

Not sure why climate change is an elephant in the room, it's been discussed to death. Everyone must be aware of it.

If you're on about this current bad weather being an indication of climate change 'starting', then i) it's already started, ii) it was and will continue to be incredibly gradual so it's unlikely one specific localised event can be pointed and and labelled as 'climate change', and ii) the current weather ain't that bad in the great scheme of things.

Edited January 30, 2014 by tonyblair

[Guest]

It's not really an elephant in the room, climate change and flooding are two slightly different problems.

When I did geagraphy in school we were taught that tarmacing wide areas, and removing tree cover would lead to flooding - simple. we were also taught that building on a flood plain means you're building where it's more likely to flood.

There are three main problems operating in the west Country - firstly farming practices have changed leading to more soil stripping, and secondly rich bastards have managed to get housing built in dodgy areas (usually with nice views on coastal plains) through the relaxing of planning laws. Thirdly public spending on environmental services like dredging has been slashed.

However the reason many areas aren't dredged anymore (like the Exe river basin) is that the rich housing barons have seen flood defences built to protect their expensive coastal properties - these flood defences protect valuable (built on land) at the expense of arable land.

In the case of Somerset, it was drained by Dutch engineers in the 60s as part of an ambitious plan to take the land (which for much of the year was underwater) and make it suitable for farming. However the plan was never to build housing on the flood plains of the major rivers along the coasts. If the water courses were dredged this would result in these areas flooding. So, there's never going to be an adequate solution.

The final problem is whilst i with my comprehensive education was taught this geography, it would appear those with an expensive private education didn't get one, and many of the rich landowners in the South west just don't understand the problem, due to a lack of education.

Also, whilst many of those who have lived on the land for generations know how best to protect it from flooding, many of those commuting to London do not, and as they're houses are only used for a couple of weeks a year, removed their grass gardens in favour of faster draining low maintenance grounds.

Edited January 30, 2014 by tonyblair

[LondonTom]

none of that explains the amounts of rain that have been falling, and other extreme weather

[eFestivals]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rapture

you are Nigel Farange and I claim my five pounds.

[Guest]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rapture

Edited January 30, 2014 by tonyblair

[Guest]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-25944823

I know isolated events have happened before, and this could just be a statistical blip. How many blips does it take before anything is done.

All this shoring up the river banks and coastal areas, just seems like King Canute.