Roger waters

[russycarps]

Now that's a whole different argument. Poignant lyrics can greatly enhance a song. However, I couldn't listen to a song with brilliant lyrics and a crappy tune as much as I could the other way round. Imagine if Jim Morrison or Dylan had written lyrics to a song with music written by Razorlight. It would still be shite.

Conversely, I can ignore (to a certain extent) crap lyrics over a brilliant melody.

Having said that I wouldn't say melody>lyrics, because an average melody can be elevated with the right lyrics into a much better song.

the best songs, however have both.

[Paul ™]

Great photo's, sir.

I really wish i'd got ticket for this

Edited September 25, 2013 by Paul ™

[russycarps]

The books, as I'm guessing I'll have no electricity to power a turntable.

[Guest]

Wild is the wind is wonderful and many more times pleasant to listen to than the original. But it isnt bowie's song is it. I think it's disrespectful to the writer to cast them to one side just because someone's improved the way the song sounds.

I guess to me lyrics>melody

that's probably what it comes down to. What is more important to you, lyrics or melody? If melody, then I can see how you can prefer covers

[russycarps]

Where do you stand with songs that are written by songwriters who have never performed their songs? Leiber & Stoller, Bacharach & David, most of the best Motown songs... the list is endless.

Loads of songs have been written and recorded only to come alive when a certain artist interprets it a certain way (Heard It Through The Grapevine for example).

It's not just the way it sounds, it's the way it's sung too. What if you're unaware that it's a cover because you never heard the original? It just seems like an odd stance to take.

there are squillions of awful covers too

[Guest]

well I do love loads of covers and of course admit many covers sound better than the originals - by a mile - but ultimately I just think most of the credit must go to the writer.

The way I look at it it's a bit like someone drawing a really fantastic, detailed pair of tits onto the mona lisa. Sure they have improved it, but the credit still belongs to da vinci....

[gibbin82]

Gibbin, Its no point trying to argue he's not miming. Its fairly clear that he's miming for most/all of those two songs, and I haven't really watched most of it. Its disappointing for sure, but I still stick with alframsey (even if does say nasty things about my home city), it was one of the greatest things I've ever seen - the production and onslaught on the senses was mind-blowing. It was extraordinary. People can try to knock the show all they want, but the feeling I had that night and the memory I take from it is not diminished at all. At the end of the day, that's all that matters.

[gibbin82]

IJust watching some of the quality cam that someones put up of one of his 2010 shows. In the Flesh Part II and Run Like Hell

Edited September 25, 2013 by gibbin82

[gibbin82]

Now to move the thread on a bit, what do people think of Roger Waters covers of 'Knockin' on Heavens Door' or 'Hello (I love you)'

Edited September 25, 2013 by gibbin82

[Ed209]

Ed209 Ref: YouTube videos especially the multi cam full show ones, these are possibly the worst sources you can look at for lip syncing, a look on places where these are shared will soon see that these are often assembled from various sources (sometimes even grabbed from YouTube itself) and then a good audio recording is borrowed and synced with it as close as possible. The Chicargo concert from 2010 you have shown is probably the worst example you could have picked, shot over four separate nights at two separate venues and and seperately sound recorded from only one night, it's not at all surprising some of it looks mimed!

When it comes down to it these YouTube clips are possibly giving a worse impression than is deserved.

[Mardy]

Wild is the wind is wonderful and many more times pleasant to listen to than the original. But it isnt bowie's song is it. I think it's disrespectful to the writer to cast them to one side just because someone's improved the way the song sounds.

I guess to me lyrics>melody

that's probably what it comes down to. What is more important to you, lyrics or melody? If melody, then I can see how you can prefer covers

[CaledonianGonzo]

Whole genres - jazz, dub, house and most dance music, post-rock, carnatic ragas, klezmer, middle baroque - and the outputs of most non-English language continents over millennia - getting dismissed out of hand here because they don't have a bloke over the top of them rhyming moon with June.

[Wooderson]

Whole genres - jazz, dub, house and most dance music, post-rock, carnatic ragas, klezmer, middle baroque - and the outputs of most non-English language continents over millennia - getting dismissed out of hand here because they don't have a bloke over the top of them rhyming moon with June.

[Wooderson]

Pav's "Nessun Dorma"? Cover version in foreign language.

*puts Russy in armlock*

[CaledonianGonzo]

A seminal cover that ditches the lyrics entirely:

[Mardy]

Oh christ, jazz.

Russy, come back, I'll take a turn manning the barricades with you.

[CaledonianGonzo]

There you go - blanket dismissal of an entire genre, one that happens to be an absolute cornerstone of modern music. It's definitely true that the deeper, weirder and farther you explore into music, the less important the lyrics seem.

[Wooderson]

Hehehe big guns on this thread need to form up like Voltron at a gig/fest soon. Top stuff all round.

[russycarps]

Melody a billion times more important than lyrics.

Also Tony's point about Bacharach wins this thread.

[CaledonianGonzo]

Oh, it's perfectly fine to dislike jazz if you're that way inclined, but it's gotta come with an acknowledgement that you're limiting your options. The narrower the range of music you listen to, the fewer pleasant surprises you'll have along the way. A life of musical consumption lived without John Coltrane isn't necessarily more full than a life lived with John Coltrane, if you follow.

To a certain extent, you can think of lyrics like training wheels on a bike. Once they come off, you can go faster, harder and farther without them. But that's not to say that an Idiot Wind or a Racing In The Street or a Black Steel In The Hour Of Chaos or a Holland, 1945 doesn't often hit the spot. I still dig Yellow Submarine and The Rainbow Connection.

(But not, funnily enough, The Wall, so come at me, bros)

[CaledonianGonzo]

I am drawn to the creative people, rather than the talented imitators

[Guest]

well this is where we differ.

I love a nice melody, but lyrics are more important to me.

[Wooderson]

Le mot juste here is "bollix".

[russycarps]

Bacharach & David... one writes the music, one writes the lyrics. Just about everyone of their songs are only recorded as 'covers'. (Burt did record a few of his songs, to varying degrees of success)

and without Pavarotti, or a singer, the song/opera doesn't exist

[gibbin82]

but puccini created the unique thing that is nessun dorma. There are loads of people like pavarotti that can sing it. Of course they are supremely talented, but it is not their work.

I am learning the piano. Say I learn to play the moonlight sonata to an incredible standard. Who deserves most praise, me for performing it beautifully, or beethoven for creating it?

Edited September 25, 2013 by gibbin82