The Dirty Independence Question

[eFestivals]

9 hours ago, LJS said:

This is allegedly from a panelbase poll currently being conducted.

 

I wonder if we'll see the results ... Car eto speculate on the % for each question, Neil?

Of course if it being conducted on behalf of someone with a vested interest in the INdy question, we may not see hte results if they don't give hte answers they are looking for. 

I did see the Bishop of Bath saying recently he would be polling soon....

 

 

As it seems to have passed you by, and ignoring the other factors in play which affected the vote in Scotland (not an irrelevance), the huge - absolutely massive ( ) - difference between whole-UK and Scotland in regard to the EU is that one person in ten has a different opinion on the EU.

Polls continue to find that views towards immigration are almost identical, btw.

[eFestivals]

PMSL

Quote

Nicola Sturgeon ‏@NicolaSturgeon  4h4 hours ago

More

Serious backpeddling from Michael Fallon on GMS on blocking #indyref2. Must have realised what a disastrous move it would be for Tories.

 

The only one round here with pedals that go backwards is the one who's running away from her own threats like a coward.

 

 

Edited February 2, 2017 by eFestivals

[LJS]

52 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

PMSL

 

The only one round here with pedals that go backwards is the one who's running away from her own threats like a coward.

 

 

No, Michael Fallon was most definitely back-peddling on his claim that Westminster would not allow a second indyref.

Much to your disappointment Wed Nic & the SNP will decide for themselves if and when they will seek to hold one.

Meanwhile at Holyrood, it looks like my voting choice at the last election will bear fruit in terms of changes to taxation & council spending.

I refer of course to my vote for the greens, the one you never talk about.

 

P.s. Nicola is running away while back-peddling? That's what I call multi-tasking.

Edited February 2, 2017 by LJS

[eFestivals]

2 minutes ago, LJS said:

No, Michael Fallon was most definitely back-peddling on his claim that Westminster would not allow a second indyref.

he was, tho it's an irrelevance until Sturgeon stops peddling backwards herself.

 

2 minutes ago, LJS said:

Much to your disappointment Wed Nic & the SNP will decide for themselves if and when they will seek to hold one.

Oh, so St Nicola was lying when she said the Scottish people would decide.

Good to know.

 

2 minutes ago, LJS said:

Meanwhile at Holyrood, it looks like my voting choice at the last election will bear fruit in terms of changes to taxation & council spending.

which still increases the wealth gap for the richest over the poorest.

Oh, and for the middle classes too. No wonder you love it.

 

2 minutes ago, LJS said:

I refer of course to my vote for the greens, the one you never talk about.

the ones you vote for as your second thought so you can wear your false halo with pride, after you've voted yourself richer with your vote for liars.

 

2 minutes ago, LJS said:

P.s. Nicola is running away while back-peddling? That's what I call multi-tasking.

yep - double-speed running away.

 

[LJS]

10 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

he was, tho it's an irrelevance until Sturgeon stops peddling backwards herself.

 

Oh, so St Nicola was lying when she said the Scottish people would decide.

Good to know.

 

which still increases the wealth gap for the richest over the poorest.

Oh, and for the middle classes too. No wonder you love it.

 

the ones you vote for as your second thought so you can wear your false halo with pride, after you've voted yourself richer with your vote for liars.

 

yep - double-speed running away.

 

 ..and that's the end of the fake news from Neil...now for the weather

Pmsl

[eFestivals]

10 minutes ago, LJS said:

 ..and that's the end of the fake news from Neil...now for the weather

Pmsl

you don't think someone who's running away from her own words ridiculing someone else who's running away from fewer words isn't a worthwhile comment?

When Sturgeon stops talking shite get back to me. That WOULD be news.

[Comfy Bean]

5 hours ago, eFestivals said:

The only one round here with pedals that go backwards is the one who's running away from her own threats like a coward.

 

4 hours ago, LJS said:

No, Michael Fallon was most definitely back-peddling on his claim that Westminster would not allow a second indyref.

 

4 hours ago, eFestivals said:

he was...

 

  

[eFestivals]

25 minutes ago, comfortablynumb1910 said:

 

 

  

what don't you understand about him going backwards at 1mph while Sturgeon is going backwards at 100mph about everything, including her want of an indyref, her want of the EU, and even her want of returning to sometime prior to 1707.

Kippers might be mad, but they only want to go back to the 1950s.

 

Edited February 2, 2017 by eFestivals

[Comfy Bean]

As I understand it, backwards is backwards.

As we may have discussed previously, Sturgeon has taken the option off the table for 2017. 

Whether you like it or not, she's in charge. It's off the table until she tells us otherwise.

As you know, I think we are in agreement that she probably doesn't currently have the numbers. This is obviously a factor in her taking it off the table. When she puts it back on the table we can probably assume her understanding of the numbers will be more positive.

Apogies for all the table references:-)

Whats everyone's view on how any reduction in turnout would affect the result ?

Im honestly not sure. With only a 5% swing required I reckon it's a factor. You can bet the yes side will have the footmen doing the taxis again and that YES will campaign hard to get the yoof out. Who wants a bet on a winter polling day lol.

[LJS]

3 minutes ago, comfortablynumb1910 said:

As I understand it, backwards is backwards.

As we may have discussed previously, Sturgeon has taken the option off the table for 2017. 

Whether you like it or not, she's in charge. It's off the table until she tells us otherwise.

As you know, I think we are in agreement that she probably doesn't currently have the numbers. This is obviously a factor in her taking it off the table. When she puts it back on the table we can probably assume her understanding of the numbers will be more positive.

Apogies for all the table references:-)

Whats everyone's view on how any reduction in turnout would affect the result ?

Im honestly not sure. With only a 5% swing required I reckon it's a factor. You can bet the yes side will have the footmen doing the taxis again and that YES will campaign hard to get the yoof out. Who wants a bet on a winter polling day lol.

Ach, she just waiting for a few hundred thousand elderly no voters to head for the great polling booth in the sky. I blame the mild winter for the delay!

[eFestivals]

2 minutes ago, comfortablynumb1910 said:

When she puts it back on the table we can probably assume her understanding of the numbers will be more positive.

Nah, far too simplistic. It's not about indy any more, it's about saving her career.

She's pinned herself into a corner where she either needs May to give her a get-out (such as what Fallon said, or perhaps even a good enough new arrangement with the EU), or she's got to follow thru by March 2019 (as long as a50 is triggered this March).

If she has a ref and loses, that's the end of her (it's not unreasonable to think she'd resign, it's standard), and the end of indy in the short and medium term.

If she bottles it and doesn't follow thru, that's her finished too in all meaningful political senses. A laughing stock down here, and lots of angry nats up there. That's what empty threats will do.

 

2 minutes ago, comfortablynumb1910 said:

Apogies for all the table references:-)

Whats everyone's view on how any reduction in turnout would affect the result ?

I'd say the UK-ers would come out in greater force than last time, and they'd be a drop in turnout (tho perhaps only small) for the indy-ists. Turnout probably won't be much different, but the result would change a little more against indy from last time.

 

2 minutes ago, comfortablynumb1910 said:

Im honestly not sure. With only a 5% swing required I reckon it's a factor. You can bet the yes side will have the footmen doing the taxis again and that YES will campaign hard to get the yoof out. Who wants a bet on a winter polling day lol.

From that YouGov polling, what's happened around the EU has caused around 5% of both no-ers and yes-ers to swap sides (tho with a slight negative in that for indy).

For a 'mature' campaign where everyone has already thought about which side they fall, that small movement from a big thing like the EU suggests it'll be very very hard to make an impact of 5% via campaigning - and don't forget, the indy side has to provide all those difficult answers, to stuff like currency and balancing the books without cutting like a tory on steroids.

[eFestivals]

14 minutes ago, LJS said:

Ach, she just waiting for a few hundred thousand elderly no voters to head for the great polling booth in the sky. I blame the mild winter for the delay!

that's the standard way indy-ists want to win, by wishing their countrymen dead. Nice! 

 

[Comfy Bean]

17 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

that's the standard way indy-ists want to win, by wishing their countrymen dead. Nice! 

 

I had read the post your responding to as a light hearted quip. 

 

[Comfy Bean]

I doubt NS will ever be remembered as a laughing stock but you're entitled to your opinion. 

Many agree with much of what she stands for and share her vision of the type of Country she would like to lead.

Many of her lifetime held beliefs on things like nuclear weapons gain her much respect. You should recognise her feelings in areas like the nukes,  You used to share them :-)

[LJS]

22 minutes ago, comfortablynumb1910 said:

I had read the post your responding to as a light hearted quip. 

 

Indeed it was, my friend. I assume some of the dead no voters will be replaced by yessers who attain the wisdom of years & turn away from the folly of youth. 

As one who is firmly in the age bracket to vote no, I dread waking up every morning, fearing I will have come to my senses overnight, & realise that I have been a mad impulsive fool. Imagine my joy each day as I chomp on my morning buttery to find I am still a selfish moron. I often give my face a little punch to celebrate.

[LJS]

 

 

Scotland’s Budget: Middle class hit by SNP-Greens deal
http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/scotland-s-budget-middle-class-hit-by-snp-greens-deal-1-4355957

waiting for Neil to welcome this.

[eFestivals]

10 hours ago, comfortablynumb1910 said:

I had read the post your responding to as a light hearted quip. 

 

as was mine.

It's still true, tho. I've seen it said endless times, that victory comes when the oldies die off.

The flaw in that line of thinking is that the number oldies who don't want to risk their pensions is growing, not shrinking. 

[eFestivals]

10 hours ago, comfortablynumb1910 said:

I doubt NS will ever be remembered as a laughing stock but you're entitled to your opinion. 

there's plenty laughing at her already, even tho we're not there yet. Some can see where it's going.

 

10 hours ago, comfortablynumb1910 said:

Many agree with much of what she stands for and share her vision of the type of Country she would like to lead.

one much less left wing than Blair is hardly the vision her supporters started off with.

 

10 hours ago, comfortablynumb1910 said:

Many of her lifetime held beliefs on things like nuclear weapons gain her much respect. You should recognise her feelings in areas like the nukes,  You used to share them :-)

I object to nukes full stop.

Her objection, like most Scots, is a hatred of them being in Scotland "put there" by "the English".

[eFestivals]

7 hours ago, LJS said:

 

 

Scotland’s Budget: Middle class hit by SNP-Greens deal
http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/scotland-s-budget-middle-class-hit-by-snp-greens-deal-1-4355957

waiting for Neil to welcome this.

it's an improvement.

But if you want me to welcome the SNP *choice* to help the tories implement austerity, you'll be waiting a while.

It's much more timid than Blair, and Blair wasn't left wing enough for Scots, so the claim used to go. 

Just think of the Scotland you might have if you stopped voting for the indy-tories because indy is more important to you than escaping toryism.

What you welcome only exposes the fake that you live and breathe.

[LJS]

9 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

it's an improvement.

But if you want me to welcome the SNP *choice* to help the tories implement austerity, you'll be waiting a while.

Is that the unique Scottish austerity where public spending rises?

9 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

It's much more timid than Blair, and Blair wasn't left wing enough for Scots, so the claim used to go. 

You are well aware that I would go further. From the realistic options on offer, this is the best outcome in my view.

9 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

Just think of the Scotland you might have if you stopped voting for the indy-tories because indy is more important to you than escaping toryism.

If you are talking about Scottish Labour, they sadly are an unelectable shambles. 

9 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

What you welcome only exposes the fake that you live and breathe.

You always bang on about electability. There is only one electable party in Scotland. Fortunately, we have a half decent electoral system whereby we rarely (once) have a majority government. Hence my list vote which has played a small part in shifting the government on taxation & expenditure. I'm not claiming it's massive but it is something & hopefully over the life of this government, we'll see some more.

[eFestivals]

12 minutes ago, LJS said:

Is that the unique Scottish austerity where public spending rises?

with the SNP robbing money from the poor to spend on pet projects.

SG spending might have stayed level, but how it's distributed hasn't.

 

Quote

You are well aware that I would go further. From the realistic options on offer, this is the best outcome in my view.

it's MUCH more timid than Blair. You used to reject Blair on the basis of him being too timid.

The best outcome in your view is one where you throw away your now-long-departed wish to help the poor because "OI'm Scottish" counts as more important.

And the Scottish difference that you love to crow about? What the fuck is different with a population no more willing to pay higher taxes for better services than anywhere else in the UK?

 

Quote

If you are talking about Scottish Labour, they sadly are an unelectable shambles. 

It's your vote and how you use your vote. Alternatives were available.

You *chose* the party that would most closely ape the tories.

 

Quote

You always bang on about electability. There is only one electable party in Scotland.

You always bang on about Scotland is different. The fact that Scotland votes for tories and their policies too shows it's not.

 

Quote

Fortunately, we have a half decent electoral system

that was nasty of that evil westminster, wasn't it? 

How about a Scottish voting system designed by Scots in Scotland? It would be undoubtedly better, because, well, it'd be Scottish.

 

Quote

whereby we rarely (once) have a majority government. Hence my list vote which has played a small part in shifting the government on taxation & expenditure. I'm not claiming it's massive but it is something & hopefully over the life of this government, we'll see some more.

My local council is taking as much off 'the rich' in the next year. It's not needed special powers to do it, nor a faked sense of identity.

Edited February 3, 2017 by eFestivals

[Comfy Bean]

3 hours ago, eFestivals said:

as was mine.

It's still true, tho. I've seen it said endless times, that victory comes when the oldies die off.

The flaw in that line of thinking is that the number oldies who don't want to risk their pensions is growing, not shrinking. 

Fair enough 

[Comfy Bean]

3 hours ago, eFestivals said:

Her objection, like most Scots, is a hatred of them being in Scotland "put there" by "the English".

Rubbish. I`ll not bother evidencing her views dating back 30 years ( again ). You know this is not true but you have your tiresome narrative of this all being about hatred of the English to keep up.

[Comfy Bean]

 

The Conservatives denounced the Budget for lurching to the left and making Scotland the highest taxed part of the UK, while Labour argued that the tax changes were not radical enough to mitigate the cuts coming to public ­services.

During a fiery debate, the Conservative finance spokesman Murdo Fraser attacked Mr Mackay for working with the Greens to produce a “hard left”, “anti-growth” and “anti-business” agenda.

“What a pity, what a tragedy for Scotland that he [Mackay] chose to throw in his lot with the lentil-munching, sandal wearing watermelons on that side of the chamber,” Mr Fraser said.

[LJS]

2 hours ago, eFestivals said:

with the SNP robbing money from the poor to spend on pet projects.

SG spending might have stayed level, but how it's distributed hasn't.

 

it's MUCH more timid than Blair. You used to reject Blair on the basis of him being too timid.

The best outcome in your view is one where you throw away your now-long-departed wish to help the poor because "OI'm Scottish" counts as more important.

And the Scottish difference that you love to crow about? What the fuck is different with a population no more willing to pay higher taxes for better services than anywhere else in the UK?

 

It's your vote and how you use your vote. Alternatives were available.

You *chose* the party that would most closely ape the tories.

 

You always bang on about Scotland is different. The fact that Scotland votes for tories and their policies too shows it's not.

 

that was nasty of that evil westminster, wasn't it? 

How about a Scottish voting system designed by Scots in Scotland? It would be undoubtedly better, because, well, it'd be Scottish.

 

My local council is taking as much off 'the rich' in the next year. It's not needed special powers to do it, nor a faked sense of identity.

Oh, Neil. Yet again you trot out the same stuff. You reply to a post about something that happened yesterday with something that could have been written any time in the past 3 years.

 

You'll forgive me for not pointing out yet again all the flaws in you tartan Tories robbing the poor nonsense.