Football 2011-2012

[thetime]

No blinkers Neil. Ask City and they'll probably say the same. Even though they tried harder because they're more desperate to win something. Fergie was probably 50/50 about winning but there clearly wasn't 100% commitment from the club about the Europa. The European campaign was over after the Champions League exit.

[thetime]

Saying that after a 2 leg game is like saying the Championship is better than the EPL because X team knocked EPL team out of the FA cup. There is a reason the EPL is ranked no.1 although it is now closer I'd say.

PS I'm Scottish so no bias here!

[eFestivals]

No blinkers Neil. Ask City and they'll probably say the same. Even though they tried harder because they're more desperate to win something. Fergie was probably 50/50 about winning but there clearly wasn't 100% commitment from the club about the Europa. The European campaign was over after the Champions League exit.

oh, I agree that it's probably not the first target for this season, but it's hardly been "don't give a shit" either.

There's no way that Fergie would risk Rooney and with it the chance of winning the league over something that he didn't give a shit about. It's clear that he didn't want to be embarrassed by being knocked out via the team he put on the pitch last night.

The only time he puts out a properly weak team is either when he's not bothered about winning or when the opposition is so weak that there shouldn't be any issue with that weak team winning (as was done against Aldershot in the CC this season) - and when the blame falls squarely on the players under-performing by losing to that very weak opposition.

My take on last night was that Fergie thought the loss at OT was a one-off, and that the team he put out last night should have been good enough to reverse that. He perhaps didn't chuck the kitchen sink at the match (I'm not sure, as I say I didn't watch more than a few snippets of the match so don't know exactly who was in the team) but the fact he included Rooney says to me that he felt it was something that Utd could and should win.

[The Nal]

What a load of rubbish.

Fergies a winner and would of been desoerate to win, face facts united are no where nesr good enough and have been found out in europe big style this season.

Edited March 16, 2012 by The Nal

[eFestivals]

Do you think if Utd were 2 down in a "must win" league game Fergie would bring on Pogba and leave Scholes on the bench?!

I'm guessing that he knew it was a hopeless cause when he did that.

After all, Pogba is pretty hopeless anyway.

[The Nal]

I'm guessing that he knew it was a hopeless cause when he did that.

After all, Pogba is pretty hopeless anyway.

[eFestivals]

First time I've ever seen Fergie throw the towel in.

is that your take on what he did?

It's mine, but only really based on what you (and perhaps others) have said here.

(As I said, I didn't see more than a few minutes of the game at various points within it ... but it looked joyless for Utd at the points I looked)

[The Nal]

is that your take on what he did?

Edited March 16, 2012 by The Nal

[strummer77]

The Uefa Cup is stupid because its not seen as a serious prize by the teams that drop down from the CL groups. How can it? At best its a consolation prize to those who came 3rd in the groups. it shouldn't happen anyway, you should get one shot at Europe a year and then you're out, excepting the CL qualifiers which are more of a sorting process. The Europa then would be a good little competition to win and you could only do so from starting out in it.

Saying that, one of the Manchester clubs will end up trophyless, my bet being City. They should regret not winning this then.

[pink_triangle]

Champions League quarter final draw:

APOEL v Real Madrid

Marseille v Bayern Munich

Benfica v Chelsea

AC Milan v Barcelona

Milan vs Barca! Sweet. Barca won't like that. The two games in the group stages were superb.

Edited March 16, 2012 by pink_triangle

[strummer77]

I think the tournament is a good one as it allows teams like bilbao who are screwed by geography compete for silverware. It would defintely be better without the 3rd place cl teams, however sad fact is that the broadcasters can make more money showing a half hearted man u team than stoke desperate to win a trophy.

[thetime]

Whats more impressive the way bilbao played is the players must have basqe heritage.

Edited March 16, 2012 by thetime

[kaosmark2]

Realised its not worth shit. He hasn't won the Championship either! Would've been nice but not at the expense of a single league point

Drogba is capable of disappearing in games as much as anyone and his antics are a disgrace.

Rooney didn't give a shit last night. either did Fergie. Can you imagine Utd losing 2 nil in the league and Fergie taking off Rio, Carrick and Giggs? I've never seen that before.

Anyway, its a pain in the arse. Games starting at 5.30. Glad its over. As Evra said after the Champions League exit - "its punishment".

[The Nal]

Disgraceful attitude. It's still a proper trophy even if it's not top priority. This attitude is *exactly* why Man U fans piss me off so much. Take wins for granted and are in denial and making excuses when outplayed by a better team.

[thetime]

Disgraceful attitude. It's still a proper trophy even if it's not top priority. This attitude is *exactly* why Man U fans piss me off so much. Take wins for granted and are in denial and making excuses when outplayed by a better team.

And Rio was playing shit, if he was playing like that in the league I'd expect Fergie to take him off. Carrick and Giggs weren't able to keep the ball or press Bilbao, anyone watching the game could see that greater energy was needed in that Man U midfield.

[eFestivals]

Truth is, Utd don't have the squad (yet) to challenge on all fronts.

Will they soon tho?

I'm not sure who else there might be in the background, but most of the last lot of kids haven't got there so why will it be different for these?

I'm far from convinced that Jones and Smalling will reach the heights that some have said they will. For example, I can remember you posting that they're England's future central defenders. Are they really?

I'm not saying they definitely won't be, but they've a long way to go yet. As a comparison, Mecheda (sp?) was going to be Rooney's replacement when it looked like he was off, but he can't even get a kick at shit QPR.

The players that should be coming thru aren't coming thru to meet Fergie's expectations - hence him needing to fall back on Scholes, and being keen to keep Giggs playing. Yes, they're both still fine players and worth their places, but if the youth plan was working as its hoped to then there wouldn't be the need to still be using them because those youngsters would be giving them a run for their money when none are anywhere close.

[thetime]

Will they soon tho?

I'm not sure who else there might be in the background, but most of the last lot of kids haven't got there so why will it be different for these?

I'm far from convinced that Jones and Smalling will reach the heights that some have said they will. For example, I can remember you posting that they're England's future central defenders. Are they really?

I'm not saying they definitely won't be, but they've a long way to go yet. As a comparison, Mecheda (sp?) was going to be Rooney's replacement when it looked like he was off, but he can't even get a kick at shit QPR.

The players that should be coming thru aren't coming thru to meet Fergie's expectations - hence him needing to fall back on Scholes, and being keen to keep Giggs playing. Yes, they're both still fine players and worth their places, but if the youth plan was working as its hoped to then there wouldn't be the need to still be using them because those youngsters would be giving them a run for their money when none are anywhere close.

[kaosmark2]

No denial at all. Ferguson said Bilbao were better. You'd have to be mad not to acknowledge that.

Ferguson said the reason he took them off was because of the Wolves game. Not because they were playing shit.

But you're right. they were shit.

Truth is, Utd don't have the squad (yet) to challenge on all fronts.

[The Nal]

I meant fans. Your posts smacked of denial.

Edited March 16, 2012 by The Nal

[thetime]

I meant fans. Your posts smacked of denial.

He could have been protecting his players, choosing not to publicly criticise them. I don't trust a word of what Fergie says to the press. Bilbao's not a huge journey back and Wolves aren't a difficult team to beat. The title run-in will be close and every point counts, but taking them off could have been a tactical decision to try and get something in that game, rather than throwing in the towel. You did score after they were taken off, and couldn't even get the ball for long enough to string 2 passes together before.

The thing is, I don't see why there isn't the squad. OK, young players are coming through, but the only (permanent) retirement is VDS. If the squad isn't large/good enough to compete properly in more than one competition, then the question has to be asked why.

[thetime]

- Madrid? Facing fair play financial rules for the first time in their history. God knows how they’ll deal with that.

[eFestivals]

Much more difficult for youngsters to come through nowadays, the level united are at they have to ge at european level straight away. No time to bed in even in prem, as its at a different level to it was in 1995.

Where are the youngsters coming through at any top side, even drying up at arsenal.

then every team has a problem is there's no one able to develop youngsters. Still, it'll extend Schole's career for another 50 years.

There's the youngsters coming thru, but not at Utd. And that's because fergie has bet the future on kids who aren't good enough.

[thetime]

There's the youngsters coming thru, but not at Utd. And that's because fergie has bet the future on kids who aren't good enough.

[The Nal]

How will this affect madrid with there huge turnover?

Edited March 16, 2012 by The Nal

[thetime]

And even younger players will be playing next season – Keane, Fryers, Tunnicliffe. Oh sure, laugh now at them and Cleverley but I remember people laughing when a certain quiet 5 ft 7 red head lad made his debut in 1994 after Hughes left. And I remember the laughter when he was moved to centre midfield when Keano did his cruciate.

18 years and ten leagues later..............