Football 2010-2011

[ralph250]

same thing isn't it, ultimately?

[sifi]

okay, i take it back. but hargreaves. pah

[ampersand]

Obviously we've not seen the best of him here in the UK, and he did have a lot of people knocking him when he first started playing for England - myself included - but in that kind of role he operates in, he's a class act. You don't get to play that many games for a team like Bayern Munich in such a key tatical position if you haven't got something about you.

[sifi]

in that case, i think the term 'world class' is overused in your case. was obviously a great player, but obviously just cos he fitted that style and culture.

he's come to man utd and looked anything but world class. and anytime i've seen him in an england shirt, the same.

Edited October 21, 2010 by sifimaster

[Cardboard Box City]

Torres?

[eFestivals]

What, that United aren't ambitious? that Fergie's not ambitious?

you're getting confused between wanting to aim for the top and being able to aim for the top, I reckon.

Surely you'd concede that Gill and Glazers was the obvious way to try and deflect some of the attention.

yep - but it doesn't make it untrue for what her might be thinking all the same.

If he was being the mercenary that the likes of you (if not specifically you) are saying, then he's gone about things all the wrong way to get the most money. He could have taken Utd for a ride financially and still left the club.

So actually, I'd say the facts point to him being straight forwards and honest. He's certainly been straighter with the club than skippy was.

weaker than when? squadwise 2008-09 yes, 2009-10 very debatable. more longterm injuries then, short of numbers in defence then. Rio's back (for now), Smalling did alright last night. Chicharito's added numbers in attack. Berba's stepped up at the moment. Nani's continued his form. Few players got another year older sure, but some of the kids are another year older (Rafael etc).

yet the kids aren't coming on at anything like the rate that even you have expected from the posts you've made here over the last couple years.

If you can think that, it's hardly strange if Rooney is, eh?

Yeah, we're playing weaker at the moment but we've been carrying Rooney for periods.

And last season Rooney carried the rest of the team (and you've pretty much said that yourself in the past). It seems like he's realised.

There's some really talented youngsters at the club (imo), doubtful all of them will make it but fair few will come good. Rafael's only 20 and played his 50th game for us last night. Who knows what they'll be like in a year or two.

well, based on you having said much the same at the start of each season for the last few seasons and they've yet to come good, I'd say not you.

The point is from Rooney's side is that he clearly doesn't seem them coming on fast enough, or getting to the standards required to sustain success.

not really. Presstalk yeah, but Skippy regularly told white lies "I'm happy here, but in the future, only god knows" etc etc. He never insulted the team or manager either. Was just following his boyhood dream.

But Rooney's not insulted Fergie, not in the slightest. He statement was full of praise for him. Disagreeing with someone's opinion is not an insult to that person.

And even the 'insult' to the team isn't actually an insult, if you've brain enough to realise that even Rooney has a brain and is allowed to have an opinion and state that opinion. As long as he's stating his true feelings it's no insult, even if some wish to view it that way.

Yes, that statement can be looked at as disloyal, but he IS allowed an opinion. And given that he only gave his opinion publicly when pretty much forced to by Fergie's statement, he certainly can't be held fully responsible for things getting to the point where he has made that statement.

[sifi]

To be fair, only one player from that list came from a big Champions League contender at the time, and he came for the money (with the exception of Viera who's on a busmans holiday).

Edited October 21, 2010 by sifimaster

[eFestivals]

I think with England he was really coming into his own prior to his injuries. He had won me round anyway, and I didn't rated him to start with.

I'm with you on that. I thought he was rubbish to start with, but he put in a few storming performances in his later England games.

[Cardboard Box City]

Shevechenko?

* scarpers *

[ralph250]

in that case, i think the term 'world class' is overused in your case. was obviously a great player, but obviously just cos he fitted that style and culture.

he's come to man utd and looked anything but world class. and anytime i've seen him in an england shirt, the same.

[eFestivals]

I agree with his sentiments and can completely see where he's coming from. I just don't think he's done it in a very good or 'proper' way.

It's certainly the case that it all becoming public is considered 'bad form' for the football world, but none of us can be certain of where the initial 'public' unattributed stuff has come from, and it was Fergie that brought it all fully into the spotlight - and given the fact he was reading a prepared statement that was a VERY considered thing by him.

It's certainly the case that if Rooney's aim was to shaft the club as much as possible he's done just about everything possible to fail with that. He could have cashed in by signing a new contract and still left the club at a time of his choosing.

[eFestivals]

To be fair, only one player from that list came from a big Champions League contender at the time, and he came for the money (with the exception of Viera who's on a busmans holiday).

Viera I mentioned in relation to his first trip to England - when he turned down Utd to sign for Arsenal (just as Robben turned down Utd to sign for another English club, just as Tevez turned down Utd to sign for another English club).

Edited October 21, 2010 by eFestivals

[Cardboard Box City]

Viera I mentioned in relation to his first trip to England - when he turned down Utd to sign for Arsenal.

[eFestivals]

To play for a Frenchman straight out of the Milan reserves?

It's an irrelevance for why I raised it. I raised it in response to an idiot comment that players don't turn down Utd - Viera did.

[ste4_20]

It's certainly the case that it all becoming public is considered 'bad form' for the football world, but none of us can be certain of where the initial 'public' unattributed stuff has come from, and it was Fergie that brought it all fully into the spotlight - and given the fact he was reading a prepared statement that was a VERY considered thing by him.

It's certainly the case that if Rooney's aim was to shaft the club as much as possible he's done just about everything possible to fail with that. He could have cashed in by signing a new contract and still left the club at a time of his choosing.

[Cardboard Box City]

It's an irrelevance for why I raised it. I raised it in response to an idiot comment that players don't turn down Utd - Viera did.

Edited October 21, 2010 by Cardboard Box City

[eFestivals]

I'm sure he definitely wrote all of that statement quite so eloquently too. It was more the public show of 'I'm fit to play, Fergie's making up the injury' that forced everything else. No matter what happened there'd be, and was, speculation. If the August thing's true, then he'd been sitting on it for 2 months. That indicates to me that he made a judgement in the interests of the team to reveal everything then.

I was talking about Fergie making his statement from a sheet of paper, not Rooney's statement.

Fergie batted away a very similar thing around hargreaves a few days before, and he could have done much the same with Rooney if he'd wanted to.

If the August thing is true, then not only has Fergie been sitting on it for 2 months, Rooney has been too. There's nothing different for either side there.

I'm sure he's made a judgement for the team, and for the club. But only time will get to show if that's been good judgement.

By signing a new contract, he'd probably be pushing up his transfer value too though.

Yep. Which is another thing which would be to Rooney's financial benefit, along with having signed a new Utd contract.

So I reckon the money side of things can be ruled out completely. If he was chasing every quid he's done things as wrongly as it's possible to do it.

[eFestivals]

He said world class players specifically in relation to Rooney wanting United to sign them. And Viera was over a decade ago.

But Utd can only sign any player if that player wants to be signed by Utd. Matey suggested that any player who was prepared to come to England wouldn't turn Utd down, but didn't put any timeframe on his statement - so Viera fits as a response.

[st dan]

;lol:

That's the best line this convo has caused to be posted.

[The Nal]

So I reckon the money side of things can be ruled out completely. If he was chasing every quid he's done things as wrongly as it's possible to do it.

[eFestivals]

So Utd haven't given players the winning mentality over the years? Would Rio have won 5-6 league titles .. A champions league .. And a collegium of FA/League cups at Leeds?

Of course not - cos Leeds weren't good enough.

Rio doesn't have much of a winning mentality. Just mentality.

Players only become world class when they play for a top club. Fact.

complete bollocks. Cruff* wasn't world class?

(*used cos he was the first name that came to mind, no other reasons).

Currently all the best players in the world play for Barca/Madrid/Inter/Bayern.

You've missed Chelsea and Liverpool and Shitty out of that.

And Utd - but only till January.

[sifi]

So Utd haven't given players the winning mentality over the years? Would Rio have won 5-6 league titles .. A champions league .. And a collegium of FA/League cups at Leeds? Players only become world class when they play for a top club. Fact.

[sifi]

complete bollocks. Cruff* wasn't world class?

Edited October 21, 2010 by sifimaster

[Cardboard Box City]

Matey suggested that any player who was prepared to come to England wouldn't turn Utd down, but didn't put any timeframe on his statement - so Viera fits as a response.

[st dan]

Do you actually know what that word means?