Football 2010-2011

[ralph250]

have they kept it secret for two months? Not according to Rooney.

But anyway, I get all of that - and I'm sure it's not passed fergie by either. All the same, fergie has stated he'll still play him.

Which, rather amusingly, is an agreement of sorts with what Rooney has said about the strength of the squad.

[Steve P]

Rooney has used the poor start to his advantage, and used it to cover up the fact that he's leaving for money alone.

[ralph250]

A policy of a few scantily clad OAPs in the dressing room every Saturday should do the trick!

[eFestivals]

Did he say that? he said he wasn't going to suspend him, not that he'd definitely be playing him.

same thing isn't it, ultimately?

Any player only plays if the manager feels they're worth playing. So far this season fergie has thought him worth playing in some and not others. I expect that's how it will continue (if his new injury doesn't exclude him entirely).

As for the outrage of him going, I think a fair amount of that isn't so much that he wants to leave, but that he's effectively walked out on the club 2 months into the season, then issued a press release 2 hrs before a CL game (would it have hurt to have released it after the final whistle), and disrespected and insulted the club, manager, players into the bargain. Argubly the fan's intelligence aswell, unless you buy his excuse.

I buy his excuse, to an extent at least. If the fans don't, their (lack of) intelligence is proven.

Utd ARE weaker than they were, and their buys and kids don't look like changing that anytime soon.

As you say, players informing clubs they wish to leave isn't rare (moving across strong rivalries/main competitors bit more so), but doing this 2 months into the season and airing it out in public in this way is.

As I've already pointed out in the last few days, who can be sure it's all as fergie has stated?

Fergie certainly pushed things along to the point where a statement from Rooney was inevitable - there were quite possibly other ways to have dealt with it which wouldn't have caused him to do that. Until fergie spoke, no one was certain about the situation, and he's managed to put other similar situations away with bullshit previously.

As for 2 months into the season ... skippy was saying things like that almost weekly.

[The Nal]

He's off to Spain for some senior ritas!

boom boom!

[st dan]

Whilst I'm sure money is a big factor, i do think there's more to it. There's a big core of your squad that will need replacing in the next couple of years due to their age, and to stay competitive they will need to make some big signings. He's clearly not convinced the money will be there to do it, and nor are most of the rest of us. As has been said a lot on here recently, the activity of United in the next couple of transfer windows is going to tell us a lot about the future of the club.

[eFestivals]

The lack of ambition statement is ridiculous really. SAF all of a sudden can't be bothered winning trophies anymoreanf wants to end his career at utd as a team challenging top 4? Yeah right.

far less ridiculous than you're thinking.

fergie has had his hands tied to some extent by finances for all the years he's been there. What he wants to do and what he's able to do are not the same things.

And we all know that Utd's financial position now is more precarious than it's been in earlier years - which, despite fergie's statements to the contrary is clearly stopping him doing some of what he'd like to do if he had a free hand.

SAF spots potential and moulds it into talent.

yet that's a method without any guarantee of success, even for fergie. Sooner or later it'll fail. Perhaps that time is now.

Whilst Rooneys ambition reasons were a good attempt to win a few fans over .. It's obviously staged.

yet the fact that the squad IS getting weaker gives it belief. There's no getting past that.

His statement was hardly going to read .. 'I want a new club who will double my current wages of £100,000 which Utd aren't willing to do' .. was he?

Very true.

But he'd also say that if it wasn't his driving factor either.

Edited October 21, 2010 by eFestivals

[sifi]

The statement was a poor attempt to get the anti-Glazers on his side, by insinuating that the money isn't there to but world class players. But don't forgot Utd very rarely have. Veron was the last established world class player we signed and look how that worked out. SAF spots potential and moulds it into talent.

Edited October 21, 2010 by sifimaster

[Steve P]

Do the names Tevez and Ferdinand not ring any bells, at all? Hargreaves?

[st dan]

Do the names Tevez and Ferdinand not ring any bells, at all? Hargreaves?

[ampersand]

are you naming world class players? i'm lost...

[sifi]

Tevez? .. He had potential. How could he be world class playing in a relatively poor league?

Hargreaves? The same guy who has made 18 starts in the PL .. At £1m a start? .. Yeah he's been a success.

Edited October 21, 2010 by sifimaster

[sifi]

are you naming world class players? i'm lost...

[ampersand]

sifi, just because you play for bayern and have won things, doesn't make you world class. is roque santa cruz world class?

[ampersand]

St Dan was suggesting that Manchester United relied on finding potential and turning it into world class talent, and that their last world class signing was Veron.

I took a few minutes to show how utterly and totally incorrect he was in every way.

[eFestivals]

Rio was a very good player, but theres no doubt Utd have progressed him as a player.

;lol:

That's the best line this convo has caused to be posted.

[sifi]

sifi, just because you play for bayern and have won things, doesn't make you world class. is roque santa cruz world class?

[sifi]

ferdinand, perhaps.

tevez and hargreaves though, give me a break.

Edited October 21, 2010 by sifimaster

[st dan]

I was stating that world class I think of likes of Messi, Iniesta, Xabi, Villa, Ronaldo, Sneijder etc. And the likes of Hargreaves don't compare to these.

From his statement ... 'During those meetings in August I asked for assurances about the continued ability of the club to attract the top players in the world'

Who does he suggest we sign? Players don't want to come to england. Simple as. Not don't want to join Utd.

Or if you don't agree with what I'm saying, and think Utd do and have signed world class players recently .. Then doesn't that just suggest that Rooney was saying it as a cover up for leaving for more money?

[eFestivals]

I've just been having a think about Rooney...

If it was about money, surely he'd have done the same thing as every other mercenary player, and negotiated himself a nice new fat contract with Utd, while still aiming to f**k off? After all, that's how you get the most money, out of both your existing club and the buying club.

And also, by engineering a move that you pretend you don't want you get a cut of the transfer fee too - many millions! Instead, he's *asked* for a transfer, and by doing so ensured he gets nothing of the fee. And by not doing the new contract thing, the buying club have the opportunity to pay him a lower figure than they otherwise might have to.

Everything he's done actually minimises how much he'll make from a move. So I think we can put the money thing to bed.

As for the rest, while its impact on the team can be said to be a bad thing (tho fergie's help increased its impact, don't forget), he's been honest and up-front - which actually gets to show him as someone with greater integrity than your average lying-badge-kissing player.

The opinion of Utd fans that Rooney is being mercenary doesn't match the facts. The opinion of Utd fans that Rooney has aimed to stab the club in the back doesn't match the facts.

At the end of the day he's doing only what each of us always do with putting ourselves first.

[ampersand]

Tevez had forty international caps for Argentina by the time he signed for Manchester United.

Ergo, world class.

And in no way was he responsible for keeping West Ham up. Oh no. Not at all.

edit :

from Wiki - Tevez honours prior to joining Manchester United.

Copa Libertadores Most Valuable Player: 2003

Silver Olimpia (Argentine Footballer of the Year): 2003, 2004

Golden Olimpia (Argentine Sportsperson of the Year): 2004

Olympic Golden Boot: 2004

CBF Campeonato Brasileiro Best Player: 2005

Placar Bola de Ouro: 2005

South American Footballer of the Year: 2003, 2004, 2005

[eFestivals]

I was stating that world class I think of likes of Messi, Iniesta, Xabi, Villa, Ronaldo, Sneijder etc. And the likes of Hargreaves don't compare to these.

so not only is Rooney right in saying Utd have no ambition, they've had no ambition for years.

Who does he suggest we sign? Players don't want to come to england. Simple as. Not don't want to join Utd.

For the first part, Silva says different, Yaya says different. For the second part.... Robben says different, Viera says different, Tevez says different.

[sifi]

I was stating that world class I think of likes of Messi, Iniesta, Xabi, Villa, Ronaldo, Sneijder etc. And the likes of Hargreaves don't compare to these.

[sifi]

For the first part, Silva says different, Yaya says different.

[ste4_20]

Agreed. But his record over there was very good, and after playing one hundred and fifty games, coming through their youth team, playing in European Champions League finals, and had about forty england international caps at that stage, he's hardly "raw talent", was he?