General News Discussion

[Rufus Gwertigan]

Let's test this. For example, the age of consent in California is 18, as is the minimum age for which statutory rape can be committed. So an 18 year old having what they thought/agreed was consensual sex with a 17 year old is, legally speaking, raping them.

Edited August 22, 2012 by Rufus Gwertigan

[Ed209]

Let's test this. For example, the age of consent in California is 18, as is the minimum age for which statutory rape can be committed. So an 18 year old having what they thought/agreed was consensual sex with a 17 year old is, legally speaking, raping them.

Another example, being awoken to sex for which explicit permission was not granted. I've certainly awoken to sex in the morning by a person I'd met only the previous night. That's the same rape Assange is accused of (not charged, by the way, he's wanted for questioning - no charges have been made).

Neither of these examples are rape... except legally they are.

Rape Is Always Rape can only be axiomatic if we do not extend the term to include non-rape offences.

Edited August 22, 2012 by Ed209

[Spartacus Mars]

From your posts in the games thread I assumed you were male, are you female or gay?

Edited August 22, 2012 by Spartacus Mars

[Ed209]

you've edited your post

Edited August 22, 2012 by Ed209

[lost]

Sex without express consent is only rape if you're a girl or gay? Or are we Bill Clintoning sex now?

Edited August 22, 2012 by lost

[Yoghurt on a Stick]

you've edited your post

Edited August 22, 2012 by Yoghurt on a Stick

[Ed209]

Sex without express consent is only rape if you're a girl or gay? Or are we Bill Clintoning sex now?

Well, I wouldn't wake someone up with a ramming - a bit harsh on a hangover - but I've certainly awoken them to nipple play, and I've been woken up with more involved sex than that.

Then again, I personally avoid drunken one-night stands. They feel, well, they feel a bit rapey. I mean, do you REALLY need to ply someone into a stupor with a sedative in order to get laid?

He wasn't charged in the preceding weeks, he's wanted for questioning, something the Swedish prosecutor refused to contemplate happening in Britain.

And before we start issuing myths about the legal integrity of the Swedish judicial system the lawyer for the two women, Thomas Bodstrom, was the Justice Minister who authorised illegal rendition to the US. Despite the prima facie evidence of his having assisted kidnapping he has yet to be charged with any offence.

[Ed209]

To be fair you edited the above post too. Just sayin'

Edited because I want to be one of the gang. lol

[lost]

I've been a little shocked by the two threads we've had on this and can't work out if people are justifying these actions because Assange is great for leaking government documents and so can't do anything wrong or they feel this way normally? As the Ched Evens case showed the woman doesn't even have to be unconscious she can just be drunk enough to not remember the next day and its still rape.

[Yoghurt on a Stick]

mine was a typo edit. I initially replied to your first post which was a sentence long. You then added 4 more paragraphs

[Ed209]

You've got the wrong person. I was just jumping in being a prat because that's what I felt like doing at the time - I know I really should grow up! I think you have mistaken me for Spartacus Mars who you were having a discussion with and presumably added 4 more paragraphs. Not sure why somebody can't edit and add more stuff though.

[Rufus Gwertigan]

I've been a little shocked by the two threads we've had on this and can't work out if people are justifying these actions because Assange is great for leaking government documents and so can't do anything wrong or they feel this way normally? As the Ched Evens case showed the woman doesn't even have to be unconscious she can just be drunk enough to not remember the next day and its still rape.

[Yoghurt on a Stick]

I've been a little shocked by the two threads we've had on this and can't work out if people are justifying these actions because Assange is great for leaking government documents and so can't do anything wrong or they feel this way normally? As the Ched Evens case showed the woman doesn't even have to be unconscious she can just be drunk enough to not remember the next day and its still rape.

[lost]

Not familiar with the Ched Evans case but find it worrying that if both male and female are plastered then the male can be done for rape if the woman can't remember what happened the next day. That's outrageously one sided and open to abuse. Me and my ex girlfriend both had a major drink problem. We were always drunk and blacking out. We rarely had sex which wasn't extremely drunken. There were times when she wouldn't remember what we did the night before. However, and here's the rub, there were times when I hadn't got a clue what we did the night before. So, going by this Chad Evans case I could have been done for rape but my ex misses couldn't. Yeah, that's fair. Not.

Edited August 22, 2012 by lost

[Rufus Gwertigan]

Not familiar with the Ched Evans case but find it worrying that if both male and female are plastered then the male can be done for rape if the woman can't remember what happened the next day. That's outrageously one sided and open to abuse. Me and my ex girlfriend both had a major drink problem. We were always drunk and blacking out. We rarely had sex which wasn't extremely drunken. There were times when she wouldn't remember what we did the night before. However, and here's the rub, there were times when I hadn't got a clue what we did the night before. So, going by this Chad Evans case I could have been done for rape but my ex misses couldn't. Yeah, that's fair. Not.

[Yoghurt on a Stick]

The way the judiciary in general look at alcohol has changed dramatically over the last 30 or so years. At one time it would be taken into account as a mitigating factor. They would give some allowance that you were drunk and may not have understood your actions or your behaviour was due to the drink. It is different now. Essentially many class it as an aggravating factor, as you voluntarily decided to get drunk and you are responsible for that action.

[Rufus Gwertigan]

Yes, but my argument is that it would appear that the being held responsible for being drunk is only attached to the male. There can't, or shouldn't, be one law for one set of people (males) and another law for another set of people (females). That's an outrageous injustice.

[Yoghurt on a Stick]

I am lost. If you thought you had been sexually assaulted (or raped if you woke with a bloke) when drunk what is stopping you reporting it? Or are you saying that a victim should be held responsible for being drunk?

[Rufus Gwertigan]

No, what I was getting at is that if both of the parties are drunk then how can one be held responsible and have that drunkeness used against them and not the other party? I'm definitely not saying that a victim should be held responsible for being drunk. That's absurd.

[Spindles]

I've been a little shocked by the two threads we've had on this and can't work out if people are justifying these actions because Assange is great for leaking government documents and so can't do anything wrong or they feel this way normally? As the Ched Evens case showed the woman doesn't even have to be unconscious she can just be drunk enough to not remember the next day and its still rape.

[Yoghurt on a Stick]

The law is there to protect the victim (male or female). However, and this is only anecdotal, if it appears that both parties had blacked out and had no memory of events it is unlikely things would move on. It is one of the reasons blood samples and the like are taken. This is a major issue around "date rapes" and a simple solution to the argument is simply not to get hammered. If then the girl, or lad, is drunk its hands off.

[Rufus Gwertigan]

Yes, it really was the case of if both people were hammered where I was coming from.

[feral chile]

Yeah thats it basically, its also a law I'm not too comfortable with either because of the grey area. I was a bit worried some people were thinking its normal to shag someone who was completely unconscious and trying to point out they could be inebriated or semi-conscious and you still could be in the shit.

[Yoghurt on a Stick]

If we look at the case of Ian Tomlinson. When he died he was the sad vunerable drunk attacked by the copper. However I am certain that elsewhere there was a violent drunk attacking a copper.

[Yoghurt on a Stick]

You do understand that a blackout isn't unconsciousness? You seem completely conscious to other people, walking around, animated etc. - but you remember nothing until you have a sense of 'waking up'. And if you're in the middle of doing something (in my case I was standing up at a gig) then you realise you must have been active the whole time. But if you 'wake up' flat on your back being penetrated, you're not going to think you were conscious, especially if you've never experienced a blackout. And you won't believe the man when he says you consented and were an active participant.